Redundancy consulataion

Savvy_Sue

pinkshoes wrote: »

Unless EVERYONE was ONLY offered their consultation in the next two weeks (when the OP is on holiday), and therefore no consultations have taken place yet,

Nothing mum has said so far suggests that any consultations have so far taken place.

I don't think I can offer anything directly to the immediate issue, but it might be worth working out what it's safe to promise a child with your son's difficulties. I don't know if "I promise I will do my very best to spend all of those two weeks with you, BUT I may need to make some important phone calls" would have made this situation any easier?

iammumtoone

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

Nothing mum has said so far suggests that any consultations have so far taken place.

I don't think I can offer anything directly to the immediate issue, but it might be worth working out what it's safe to promise a child with your son's difficulties. I don't know if "I promise I will do my very best to spend all of those two weeks with you, BUT I may need to make some important phone calls" would have made this situation any easier?

Yes I do understand I made a mistake I said that earlier in the thread but he has been so difficult this holiday just wanting to spend time with me and I really didn't think I should have to go into work as I had pre-booked holiday. However the reason I can't/don't want to go is irrelevant really, I am on holiday I don't think I should have to go in especially at the end of this it is unlikely I will have a job anyway! Why should anyone have to put themselves out and disrupt their plans (whatever the reason) for a company they aren't going to be working for in a months times.

Someone asked why I was being difficult, well my job is being taken for me, why should I jump through hoops for their demands as I am losing my job? If I would still have a job after this then of course I would make more of an effort to go as I would view it differently then.

sangie595

iammumtoone wrote: »

Yes I do understand I made a mistake I said that earlier in the thread but he has been so difficult this holiday just wanting to spend time with me and I really didn't think I should have to go into work as I had pre-booked holiday. However the reason I can't/don't want to go is irrelevant really, I am on holiday I don't think I should have to go in especially at the end of this it is unlikely I will have a job anyway! Why should anyone have to put themselves out and disrupt their plans (whatever the reason) for a company they aren't going to be working for in a months times.

Someone asked why I was being difficult, well my job is being taken for me, why should I jump through hoops for their demands as I am losing my job? If I would still have a job after this then of course I would make more of an effort to go as I would view it differently then.

So to your mind, the redundancies will be absolute and there is no chance of any reprieve or alternative work? If that is the case, or if you want to leave anyway (i'm not sure if that is the case or not) then just say that you can't attend and leave it at that. Nobody can force you to attend a meeting if you don't want to.

iammumtoone

Please can someone answer the hypothetical question - What would have happened if I had gone away abroad so missed my consultation due to that?

If the answer is tough on my part as I had holiday (booked before the consultation period started) and due to that I had no right to a consultation, as I was offered one but missed it. I will accept that and make my decision whether to go or not.

If with the above I would have been entailed to have a consultation on my return (after the end date) then why does the law penalise those that have decided not to go away on holiday?

sangie595

The answer to your hypothetical question is irrelevant. But yes, if you must know, it would be tough luck. The employer ought to try to find a solution (such as a phone call). But it does not suspend the consultation period. There is no reason why the meeting has to be held on the consultation period however - it could be held afterwards. During your notice period. But the timetable for the consultation is for everyone - it is not individual to you. And the consultation period is not all one way either - so if you had a proposal to put, you could have asked for a meeting.

theoretica

iammumtoone wrote: »

I am sure that I will be able to re-schedule but that date will still be whilst I am on holiday. The date when all the consultations have to end by is whilst I am on holiday. It is annoying they have had 45 days and leave it to the last two weeks, but perhaps this is normal I have never been in this situation before.

https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/consultation
https://www.gov.uk/staff-redundant/redundancy-consultations

From this government page the employer doesn't actually need to consult with every affected individual, but rather with a representative appointed by the affected employees. However, if they haven't been talking with a representative and you haven't had the relevant information in written or other form they seem to be interpreting 45 days consultation rather to their advantage as a period of warning and then a brief 'consultation' once they have decided on shift patterns and the like.

My thought is that you and your holiday are a weak issue to challenge them on - and what do you want them to do that they realistically might do at this point? On the other hand you and all your colleagues might have a stronger case that they are not meeting the requirements to 'give representatives or staff enough time to consider'.

iammumtoone

theoretica wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/consultation
https://www.gov.uk/staff-redundant/redundancy-consultations

From this government page the employer doesn't actually need to consult with every affected individual, but rather with a representative appointed by the affected employees. However, if they haven't been talking with a representative and you haven't had the relevant information in written or other form they seem to be interpreting 45 days consultation rather to their advantage as a period of warning and then a brief 'consultation' once they have decided on shift patterns and the like.

My thought is that you and your holiday are a weak issue to challenge them on - and what do you want them to do that they realistically might do at this point? On the other hand you and all your colleagues might have a stronger case that they are not meeting the requirements to 'give representatives or staff enough time to consider'.

I have not been told who my representative is so as far as I am aware I don't have one.

Yes that is exactly what I believe has happened, they didn't know until Friday what the new structure/shift pattern were going to be and only have 2 weeks left of the consultation period.

iammumtoone

Reading that first link it says the consultation must start 45 days before, but what counts as consultation? we had a meeting advising some jobs would be effected and then a letter telling the individual if they were at risk, that started the clock. But then nothing more until two weeks before the end date, where we are offered a consultation. As far as I know none of the factory have had any consolations/heard anything before now either.

sangie595

iammumtoone wrote: »

I have not been told who my representative is so as far as I am aware I don't have one.

Yes that is exactly what I believe has happened, they didn't know until Friday what the new structure/shift pattern were going to be and only have 2 weeks left of the consultation period.

But that is normal. The point of consultation is to not have made up your mind. And it isn't up to the employer to tell you who your rep is. It is either a union (if there are recognised unions) or someone elected from the workforce. The likelihood is, given the number of redundancies indicating this is a larger workplace, that the consultation was handled by the union. In which case there would be no requirement to consult you individually, and these meetings are individual meetings about your post - not consultation meetings. And can continue after the 45 days.

theoretica

sangie595 wrote: »

But that is normal. The point of consultation is to not have made up your mind. And it isn't up to the employer to tell you who your rep is. It is either a union (if there are recognised unions) or someone elected from the workforce. The likelihood is, given the number of redundancies indicating this is a larger workplace, that the consultation was handled by the union. In which case there would be no requirement to consult you individually, and these meetings are individual meetings about your post - not consultation meetings. And can continue after the 45 days.

That is a good point - the employer could have been consulting very properly, but with some staff unaware of this.