When is a disputed amount a "debt"?

Geoff1963

Let's say, just for discussion, that the contract terms are ambiguous, or unenforceable. Let's say that the OP doesn't pay ; and either an Ombudsman or a court, decides in his favour. Would the OP be able to recover the cost to his reputation, from the reporting of the "debt", which might have a financial calculation ? As well as the report being corrected, of course.

If the firm had to hold off on its reporting while the "debt" was disputed, they wouldn't have to pay that compensation ; but if they don't, there is no incentive for them to not "go public".
I would be happy if, in that circumstance ; a finding by the Ombudsman / court against the OP, allowed the firm to then post "arrears" which were back-dated to when the money became due ; even if it was paid in full, as soon as that decision was made.

Let's say instead that the OP pays, then gets an Ombudsman / court ruling in his favour, and gets his money back. Would the firm have back-dated arrears, posted on their credit report ?

All I'm suggesting, is that the arrangement should be symmetric.

antrobus

Gmod wrote: »

...Instead of instructing debt collectors or starting Court proceedings Virgin have contacted the credit reference agencies and my credit rating has been affected. ...

Virgin will have 'contacted' the CRAs in the sense that your debt was included in the periodic update they sent to them. They are not picking on you. You will be just one of thousands (?) of people who have an unpaid balance on their Virgin Media account.

Court action and the instruction debt collectors may well follow, if you can't resolve the matter with Virgin Media.

I believe that you can request a Notice of Correction to be placed on your credit file stating that you dispute the debt.

sourcrates wrote: »

..The matter is between you and virgin, there is no independent 3rd party to perform that function.

Yes there is. It's called a court.:)

Geoff1963 wrote: »

..Perhaps the FOS could help ; and perhaps there should a rule that any "arrears" which the FOS are investigating, should appear on a credit report, automatically with such a note...

I doubt that. The FOS deals with complaints about banks etc. It doesn't do telecoms. Or CRAs:)

Ofcom does telecoms. ICO does CRAs.

antrobus

Geoff1963 wrote: »

Let's say, just for discussion, ...

This is not a discussion forum. Having some debate about your hypothetical scenario is of no use to the OP whatsoever.

You are not being helpful.

Geoff1963

You don't have a service contract with a parking company.

They argue that you have entered into a contract, it is the basis of the charge they make.

This is not a discussion forum.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/forum
Noun
forum (plural forums or fora)
A place for discussion.
A gathering for the purpose of discussion.
A form of discussion involving a panel of presenters and often participation by members of the audience.
(Internet) An Internet message board where users can post messages regarding one or more topics of discussion.
Trish was an admin on three forums, and had no trouble at all when it came to moderating them.
A square or marketplace in a Roman town, used for public business and commerce.

If the OP is wrong, then the arrears statement is true ; but if ( in the extremely unlikely event that it is not ) it would be easy to minimise the harm. Permissible debt-collection activity changes, if the debt is disputed. Maybe Virgin is never wrong, but we should have a general policy for such cases.

Thrugelmir

Gmod wrote: »

When I moved house they told me I owed them £170 as a leaving fee. I disputed the fee. I don't agree with their interpretation of the contract.

Have you sought advise from a solicitor specialising in commercial law in arriving at his viewpoint ? As the one certainty you do face is that Virgin most certainly did and they would have drafted the contract up.

boo_star

Geoff1963 wrote: »

Let's say, just for discussion, that the contract terms are ambiguous, or unenforceable. Let's say that the OP doesn't pay ; and either an Ombudsman or a court, decides in his favour. Would the OP be able to recover the cost to his reputation, from the reporting of the "debt", which might have a financial calculation ? As well as the report being corrected, of course.

If the firm had to hold off on its reporting while the "debt" was disputed, they wouldn't have to pay that compensation ; but if they don't, there is no incentive for them to not "go public".
I would be happy if, in that circumstance ; a finding by the Ombudsman / court against the OP, allowed the firm to then post "arrears" which were back-dated to when the money became due ; even if it was paid in full, as soon as that decision was made.

Let's say instead that the OP pays, then gets an Ombudsman / court ruling in his favour, and gets his money back. Would the firm have back-dated arrears, posted on their credit report ?

All I'm suggesting, is that the arrangement should be symmetric.

There was a case several years ago where someone sued the CRAs for defamation but I can't for the life of me find any reference to the case.

I suspect it didn't work out for them considering nothing changed but I don't know for sure.

[Deleted User]

Geoff1963 wrote: »

They argue that you have entered into a contract, it is the basis of the charge they make.

A contract, yes. A SERVICE contract, no.

Gmod

Thanks for all the suggestions folks.
Re defamation, that is an interesting suggestion but not an option sadly. Defamation can only succeed if my reputation was affected. Virgin haven't told anyone about the dispute. They haven't broadcast it or told anyone.
All the correspondence has been private.
To all those who say I signed a contract - that's correct. I did. But that doesn't mean Virgin a free to charge me whatever fee they want.
My problem is this: I've told Virgin I wont be paying. I've told them they need to take me to Court. If a judge says I'm wrong then fine. I'll pay them. But Virgin have refused to take Court action. What can I do now? (except for pay up)
Thanks in advance

[Deleted User]

"To all those who say I signed a contract - that's correct. I did. But that doesn't mean Virgin a free to charge me whatever fee they want."

Yes - they are - as per the terms set out in the contract and whatever the fees are at the time of you requesting cancellation.

"But Virgin have refused to take Court action. What can I do now? (except for pay up)"

You've answered your own question there. Pay what you owe as per your contract with them

System

Gmod wrote: »

I agree I have a contract with them. But they can't unilaterally decide I've breached it and affect my credit file.

Actually they can.

You cannot remove it from your credit file. There was a bill due and you didn't pay it. They are required to report factually correct matters, that is even by your own admission factually correct.

Your own sheer bloody mindedness to make a decision about not paying a charge you agreed to when you signed up the service because you incorrectly thought you were in the right is what has lead to this and you are going to suffer the consequences of this for the next few years.