When is a disputed amount a "debt"?

Gmod

I had a phone, TV and broadband package with Virgin.


When I moved house they told me I owed them £170 as a leaving fee. I disputed the fee. I don't agree with their interpretation of the contract.


Instead of instructing debt collectors or starting Court proceedings Virgin have contacted the credit reference agencies and my credit rating has been affected.


Virgin are calling it a "debt". As far as I'm concerned it is not a "debt" until an independent 3rd party has confirmed I owe the money. As it's not a debt it shouldn't appear on my credit file.


This seems to be bullying behaviour to force me to pay up.


How can I remove this from my credit file? How can I complain about this bullying behaviour?


Thanks in advance.


(ps. I'm not asking for advice on the contract or whether I should pay them or not).

National_Debtline

Hi Gmod and welcome to MSE,


Please be aware that only incorrect information can be removed/ amended from your credit file. I appreciate this payment is something you disagree with, but at the moment there will be a contract between you and Virgin that they feel you are in arrears/ default with and will mark your credit file to reflect that. It is not a bullying tactic as such and their ability to do this will be outlined in the terms and conditions of the agreement. Please be aware that they can still use debt collectors and the county court to chase this debt as well.


If you believe the information that has been recorded is inaccurate you will need to complain to Virgin and ask them to remove it. If they refuse you can escalate the matter to CISAS https://www.cedr.com/cisas/cps-registered-with-cisas/ and the Information Commissioners Office (ICO). I hope you get it sorted,


Laura
@natdebtline

sourcrates

Gmod wrote: »

Virgin are calling it a "debt". As far as I'm concerned it is not a "debt" until an independent 3rd party has confirmed I owe the money. As it's not a debt it shouldn't appear on my credit file.
.

Hi,

On what case law are you basing this assumption ?

The matter is between you and virgin, there is no independent 3rd party to perform that function.

You need to follow the correct process for disputing what they say you owe as otherwise you will lose every time.

My own personal hate are cancellation charges, or any charges outside of your normal contract, so I am with you on this, but you must dispute the matter in the correct fashion, as outlined by National debtline above.

Good luck.

Gmod

I wrote to virgin and told them I disputed the fee and explained why (don't want to get into that here, as it's complex).


I invited them to issue court proceedings against me if they disagreed. I don't mind going to Court and arguing the case. If a judge decides I owe the money I will happily pay it.


In my opinion it becomes a debt at that stage, but not before.


I agree I have a contract with them. But they can't unilaterally decide I've breached it and affect my credit file.


Whether or not I owe the money is not the issue as I see it, it's the way they have gone for my credit file. If they think I owe them money why not send in the debt collectors or issue court proceedings?


The credit file is a dirty tactic to my mind as there is no easy way to explain your case, unlike the court process.


It's also a tactic that is only available to big companies when they are in dispute with individuals, which is why it feels like bullying.

Geoff1963

there will be a contract between you and Virgin that they feel you are in arrears/ default with and will mark your credit file to reflect that

If it were an individual, the OP could sue them for defamation ; but it seems to me unreasonable that the firm's interpretation, is what determines the customer's financial reputation. If the OP started handing out leaflets making unsubstantiated accusations about Virgin, they would soon have him stopped.

As contrary examples : a CCJ is only created when a judge decides, and a bankruptcy is only decided by a similar formal process. Unless such a decision is made, the customer is "innocent until proven guilty".

Perhaps the FOS could help ; and perhaps there should a rule that any "arrears" which the FOS are investigating, should appear on a credit report, automatically with such a note.

Either that, or if a resolution is agreed, that should be shown on the credit report ; but if firms knew they would have to publish a retraction, they might be less inclined to settle with goodwill.

Geoff1963

P.S. What if Private Parking Companies were allowed to register an unpaid parking charge on the Registered Keeper's Credit Report ?

[Deleted User]

When you signed the contract for services by Virgin, the cancellation process and cost would have been set out to you. If you disagreed with the contract, you should have taken your business elsewhere.

You signed the contract, you owe the money and your credit report is a reflection of the truth. If you didn't want a default, you should have paid and then taken Virgin to court. It costs little and if you had won, they would have had to pay your costs.

Whatever tin foil hat reason you have for not thinking this is a debt, you are wrong.

Geoff1963 - what does that have to do with anything? You don't have a service contract with a parking company.

[Deleted User]

Geoff1963 wrote: »

If it were an individual, the OP could sue them for defamation ; but it seems to me unreasonable that the firm's interpretation, is what determines the customer's financial reputation.

What planet are you living on?

There is a contract in place. Lawyers would have written the contract and for a big company like Virgin, if it was unfair or illegal, that would have been identified by now.

If you don't like the contract, don't sign it! It's funny how people are quick to take services, or credit when it suits them and then whinge and moan when they don't want to complete their end of the contract anymore.

Linus2864

Hello Gmod,


Just out of interest, as a VM customer myself, I went back over the T&Cs on the VM website and there is a list of early disconnection fees listed:


http://www.virginmedia.com/shop/the-legal-stuff/terms-and-conditions-for-fibre-optic-services/early-disconnection-fees.html


You will also have been required to sign up to these T&Cs when you took on the service, so can't really see a way out for you. The T&Cs also explain that non-payment may lead to difficulties obtaining further credit.


For the record I may disagree with the fees too, but c'est la vie, it's part of the deal.


Hope this helps.


L

DCFC79

Just pay what you owe, you signed the contract with the terms listed.

IAmWales

Geoff1963 wrote: »

If it were an individual, the OP could sue them for defamation ; but it seems to me unreasonable that the firm's interpretation, is what determines the customer's financial reputation. If the OP started handing out leaflets making unsubstantiated accusations about Virgin, they would soon have him stopped.

As contrary examples : a CCJ is only created when a judge decides, and a bankruptcy is only decided by a similar formal process. Unless such a decision is made, the customer is "innocent until proven guilty".

Perhaps the FOS could help ; and perhaps there should a rule that any "arrears" which the FOS are investigating, should appear on a credit report, automatically with such a note.

Either that, or if a resolution is agreed, that should be shown on the credit report ; but if firms knew they would have to publish a retraction, they might be less inclined to settle with goodwill.

You're not going to be successful claiming defamation when the respondent is stating fact.

Your post is your opinion but none of it is based in reality. Yes, OP can go to the ombudsman but they're not going to intervene when OP fails to comply with their contractual agreement.