Two lanes merging to one after roundabout

robinwales

tho wrote: »

The thing is it's not lane "ends". It is lane merge. A lot of people here are suggesting the Op should give way. If it was lane end with give way the road would be marked with a dashed line. The arrows show move left not give way. It's a bit of common sense all round and the volvo failed that.

Thank you! You must be as intelligent and sensible as me!

Mercdriver

robinwales wrote: »

There are no signs relating to the road mergings, apart from the arrows in the road. Those signs at the entrance are just place-name directions. At the bottom of the shot are the two lanes that are to go ahead to the two lanes at the start of the exit in the background.



Another point that hasn't been mentioned is that the roundabout can get very busy, and if people don't use that right lane very much for fear of being accused of 'cutting in' then the traffic can soon stack up back to the main roundabout which is not far away. I have seen that happen.

Ah the Camarthen end of the A484. Have been down that way on little trips to Llansteffan and Laugharne...

NBLondon

Teapot55 wrote: »

The white arrows indicate that the two lanes are merging into one.

Nope - they indicate that the right lane merges into the left. Both lanes merging would have mirror image arrows in each lane

robinwales wrote: »

merge
verb
combine or cause to combine to form a single entity.

That isn't the same as one thing becoming part of another as in the right lane joining the left.

Yes it is. The term merge doesn't have any implication of inequality or priority between the two parts only that they end up as one whole.

It's a merge! Both lanes are going into one.

See previous comment to Teapot55.

Have you seen the video from Australia that perfectly explains the logic of the car behind in the primary lane giving way to the other when there are no markings left in the road?

Funny, I could have sworn Carmathen was Old South Wales not NSW :whistle: Yes - that Australian approach makes sense and it works when everybody understands and keeps to it. As does "Filter in Turn" as used in the Channel Islands. Explicit Merge in Turn also works when it is used in UK (e.g. south end of Blackwall Tunnel). Given the possibility of a tailback onto the roundabout - an explicit Merge in Turn sign would be a good solution.

tho wrote: »

The thing is it's not lane "ends". It is lane merge. A lot of people here are suggesting the Op should give way. If it was lane end with give way the road would be marked with a dashed line. The arrows show move left not give way. It's a bit of common sense all round and the volvo failed that.

Yep. And the OP passed it by not actually moving left until it was safe.

Laz123

unholyangel wrote: »

The volvo driver wasn't overtaking - he didn't enter that lane for the purpose of bypassing traffic. Traffic moving faster in the left lane than the right is not overtaking (illegal or otherwise). Even if he had been overtaking, overtaking on the left is not illegal (although it may help demonstrate careless/dangerous driving).

That aside, I'm not disputing the volvo driver acted like a !!!!!. They should have let traffic merge. However, the fact there are directions telling you to move over to the left lane does not give you priority over traffic already in that lane. While they should have given way to traffic wanting to merge, merging traffic also needs to give way to traffic already in the lane/road they want to join. IMO it seems very likely it would have been 5050 in the circumstances OP describes.

I see where you're coming from (no pun intended) but this is interesting:

Can you undertake on a dual carriageway?
In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake. If you undertake other than in the circumstances described above on a motorway/dual carriage way, you could commit an offence.

However, I come from the old school of driving, 43 years and no accidents. I would have indicated I was moving from the right to the left merging lane and increased my speed if I anticipated there was going to be a problem. Anticipation is the key to driving. However, if the Volvo increased acceleration at the same time or after he would have committed an offence.

almillar

So perhaps we should conclude that the arrow is advisory and not mandatory.

Yes, and there could be a few along the way. The outside lane driver should, upon seeing these arrows, plan a safe merge. The drivers on the inside lane, should be aware that people may be merging, and at busy times, might need to help them out a bit, or at least 'hold still' (not change speed/course massively). And in the above case, the lane actually ending, is definitely mandatory!

Strider590

Laz123 wrote: »

However, I come from the old school of driving, 43 years and no accidents. I would have indicated I was moving from the right to the left merging lane and increased my speed if I anticipated there was going to be a problem. Anticipation is the key to driving. However, if the Volvo increased acceleration at the same time or after he would have committed an offence.

Absolutely no need to indicate if there is nowhere else you could possibly be going.
As well as people who race up to block merging, the other one you get is people getting p1ssy because you don't indicate after overtaking, but at the end of the day, it's "mirrors, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal" and overtaking is single manoeuvre.

DoaM

Strider590 wrote: »

but at the end of the day, it's "mirrors, signal, manoeuvre",

How exactly do you think the signal part is effected? (I agree that it's not absolutely necessary for an overtake manoeuvre, but for a merge it would be good practice so that the other party is aware of your intentions - even if they should already be aware).

bigadaj

Just trying to work out that location, it's presumably just before morrisons?

Ultimately people are exiting a busy roundabout and that section is probably 100m long, before getting to the next roundabout and then heading down to Llanelli.

I think any crash would be 50:50 for insurance purposes, would be difficult to assume any one person was wholly to blame.

I think there's a particular problem in rural areas like this, was down there last weekend and then spent the middle of the week in Cumbria. The demographics seem to end up with a combination more elderly drivers but also a lot of youngsters saying around, a pretty lethal mix.

Laz123

Strider590 wrote: »

Absolutely no need to indicate if there is nowhere else you could possibly be going.
As well as people who race up to block merging, the other one you get is people getting p1ssy because you don't indicate after overtaking, but at the end of the day, it's "mirrors, signal, manoeuvre", not "mirror, signal, manoeuvre, signal" and overtaking is single manoeuvre.

Welcome aboard. It's always a pleasure to have a police driving instructor to advise us. But as already stated driving with the anticipation of foreseeing problems is always a good idea. To my mind nowadays, especially with the influx of foreign drivers with much less road discipline than British drivers, even if it wasn't necessary to indicate I would have done so. It eliminates another risk.

Mercdriver

bigadaj wrote: »

Just trying to work out that location, it's presumably just before morrisons?

Ultimately people are exiting a busy roundabout and that section is probably 100m long, before getting to the next roundabout and then heading down to Llanelli.

I think any crash would be 50:50 for insurance purposes, would be difficult to assume any one person was wholly to blame.

I think there's a particular problem in rural areas like this, was down there last weekend and then spent the middle of the week in Cumbria. The demographics seem to end up with a combination more elderly drivers but also a lot of youngsters saying around, a pretty lethal mix.

It's the terminus of the A48, and A40/A484 also join here.