Problem solved please delete

dickydonkin

Stylehutz wrote: »

My guess is that you didnt get the problem solved. As with usual from Mse you got bombarded by the usual daily fail readers brigade on this thread who have no sympathy for any employees grievences whatever they may be.

I suspect you are correct....it is quite pathetic really as some many great contributors to these forums have gone for the very same reason. Sar-El was a perfect example who used to provide invaluable employment law advice on here but left because of the perceived nastiness and criticism of her contributions.

It only took the fourth post on this thread for someone to hammer the poster.

Back on topic, the punishment does seem harsh and I suspect on their own, would have just warranted a verbal warning.

Technically, not wearing PPE is a breach of health and safety requirements, but so is maliciously discharging a fire extinguisher at a colleague. The punishment (imo), should have been issued in the context of the crime - bearing in mind both the OPs 'breaches' were first offences.

We all make mistakes and errors of judgement and that is something for those on here who are quick to pounce on a poster requesting advice should remember......you are not perfect yourselves!

Malthusian wrote: »

I imagine for when he gets out of the cab to stroll around an area where other people are driving lorries. As well as lay bys and the like.

Sure, the rule could be "put your hi viz on before getting out of the cab" but putting clothes on in a vehicle is awkward and some people would forget or not bother.

That is also my interpretation as well. It is so easy in many working environments to forget to wear PPE.....that is one of the factors why such controls are the final line of defence against workplace hazards.

ohreally

Malthusian wrote: »

I imagine for when he gets out of the cab to stroll around an area where other people are driving lorries. As well as lay bys and the like.

Sure, the rule could be "put your hi viz on before getting out of the cab" but putting clothes on in a vehicle is awkward and some people would forget or not bother.

The op needs to provide this information within the context of why this went to disciplinary.

getmore4less

it has nothing to do with the hi-viz that was just an add on.

This is about the long break, forgetting on the day and a week later.

tho_2

If the Op comes back, there's one key piece of info which supports either him or the company. On the day with the long lunch, what time did you finish? Did you forget and have to be told to go home, or did you remember and pack up at 8 hours? I'd say if you were cracking on well into your 9th hour it supports your story. If you managed to remember between lunch and finishing then well, it doesn't look great, and you probably should have advised a boss there and then.

dickydonkin

getmore4less wrote: »

it has nothing to do with the hi-viz that was just an add on.

This is about the long break, forgetting on the day and a week later.

Originally Posted by Will3000 View Post
Hello, I had no other warnings on record and I have just been given a final written warning for 'conduct', for stupidly forgetting to wear my high vis vest while out on a delivery run and also mistakenly taking an hour break

Not according to the OP who must have been informed formally as to why he was being disciplined. I have based my replies on what the OP has stated - not on assumptions. I do accept that potentially both are subject to disciplinary action, but common sense and consistency should prevail.

For the Hi-Viz incident, a verbal warning would have been sufficient punishment for the first offence of a relatively minor breach of H&S requirements. Removing the guard from a machine to make a job easier for example is on another level and would certainly warrant a more severe sanction.

ohreally wrote: »

The op needs to provide this information within the context of why this went to disciplinary.

My thoughts as well.

ThemeOne

eleven3000 wrote: »

Hello, all sorted please delete thread.

Thanks for your opinions.

It's better to leave your original post on here, so it can help others facing similar problems - that's the purpose of the forum.

Your original post has been quoted in replies anyway, so it's still visible.

Stylehutz

ThemeOne wrote: »

It's better to leave your original post on here, so it can help others facing similar problems - that's the purpose of the forum.

Your original post has been quoted in replies anyway, so it's still visible.

I agree but when its highjacked by the Daily Fail boss loving, employee hating brigade, it can be a bit soul destroying.

This isn't the best forum to post these sort of issues, there are better forums out there where you get good constructive replies. Too many good people like Sar El have left this forum because they know what it's now like.

getmore4less

dickydonkin wrote: »

Sar-El was a perfect example who used to provide invaluable employment law advice on here but left because of the perceived nastiness and criticism of her contributions.

good on employment but was fairly clueless at conducting themselves on internet forums.

a bit of a bully, got sucked in by the trolls into pointless discussions, even tried resurrecting themselves but the give away signs were there, old habits are hard to let go.

was also very active on the redundancyforum but that has gone now..... did anyone find out why it shut down?

also seen on consumeractiongroup not sure if still active never go there.

sangie595

If we are discussing the state of the thread rather than the issue, I would point out that currently the view of some people on here is that employees are always right, no matter what; employers are always wrong, no matter what. And that attacking posters personally for expressing a opinion which you disagree with is the order of the day. But God forbid that anyone answers back, because then they get reported. As someone who spends a great deal of effort on these boards - to be constantly hit by a barrage of abuse because people don't like facts - I can certainly understand why posters leave; I came back after leaving once and I often wonder why.


If we want, on the other hand, to discuss the thread, then it is a fact that an "honest mistake" is not a defence against a disciplinary allegation is not a defence. In the absence of any other mitigating circumstances, there is little point in appealing because appeals seldom succeed, and there is no independent route to test the validity of that decision by the employer. However, whether it was harsh or not really does depend, and no amount of opinions from anonymous posters on websites changes the fact that the employer makes the decisions, not MSE members. If this was the first time that the OP got caught, but the employer was deliberately monitoring them for performance or conduct matters, then maybe this was the only evidence that the employer had in a sequence of concerns. If the OP had had verbal instructions on these matters a few times and ignored them, again, maybe the employer had had enough. If the OP was routinely organising union activities and recruiting members, then maybe the employer was looking for an excuse. The thing is, we have no idea at all what the context is. So we are advising in a vacuum, and in that circumstance, the only useful advice in factual. Tea and sympathy might make someone feel that they have been totally picked on unjustly by their employer. And maybe they have. But nobody knows that is the case. And even if it is, how does attacking people here for not saying "There, there, yes, go and appeal, the employer is a ***** and you are totally in the right" help the OP? It doesn't. And it might even get them into more trouble than they are already in. S**t stirring might be fun for some posters, who never have a single positive contribution that helps the OP except to criticise the opinions of and personally abuse everyone they don't personally agree with. But it is wearing. And that is why good posters leave. And what do you end up with? Opinionated idiots with no ability to advise anyone, and even less interest in doing so. After all, they aren't here to advise, and they never advise. They are here to enjoy creating as much chaos as they can, and if that happens to ruin the board, so be it - they don't care because it is all about them and not about the people who have, rightly or wrongly, ended up in trouble at work. God forbid that it should be about them...

Undervalued

Stylehutz wrote: »

I agree but when its highjacked by the Daily Fail boss loving, employee hating brigade, it can be a bit soul destroying.

This isn't the best forum to post these sort of issues, there are better forums out there where you get good constructive replies. Too many good people like Sar El have left this forum because they know what it's now like.

That is not actually why she left! She gave excellent advice that cut straight to the point backed up by a lifetime of experience. But is was seen as too direct by some. In fact they accused her of exactly what you are now complaining about! Disgracefully it lead to a PPR suspension. For a while she returned under a different name but was, sadly, "outed". Eventually, sadly but understandably, she had enough.

People need to understand that the fact that advice is not what they want to hear doesn't, in itself, make it wrong. Yes maybe sometimes it could be put more tactfully but if you are looking for expert advice for free you are not really in a position to dictate terms. Simply saying "there there, you poor hard done by thing" may occasionally be useful but it seldom solves the problem.