Land Registry questions

Land_Registry

msprint said:

Hi 
Background: I'm in the process of remortgaging. I have a joint mortgage with sibling and want to remortgage on my own. There is a declaration of trust in place - so there is a restriction registered to secure the declaration of trust. The lawyers of my bank who I am remortgaging with have asked that I upload the declaration of trust (of which I only have a final draft copy as my conveyancer at the time did not send me a final version), so that they can ensure we are complying with the trust and to provide a statement of truth to bring the restriction to an end. However, my sibling and I have agreed we no longer want to follow through with the terms of the trust and  want to just end the restriction. The bank's lawyers have advised that I will need to appoint my own solicitors to bring the trust to an end and have this removed from the title deeds. They will only be able to remove the sole proprietor restriction registered against my property. 
Question: Can we do this on our own without solicitors? I approached our previous conveyancer who advised that this is something that my bank's legal team should be able to do for us but they are reluctant to do so as we are not following through with the terms (even though my sibling and I are in agreement for it to end). From reading the various threads - it looks like we can apply ourselves to bring the trust to an end and have the restriction removed from the title deeds.
Can you confirm what the process is to allow this to happen please? i.e. What forms and what evidence/documents I need to provide and who these need to go to (presumably the Land Registry).  And do I still need to submit a statement of truth? Or is this only for confirming the terms of the declaration of trust has been complied with (which we are not doing as circumstances have changed).

Thanks in advance for your help.

I’m unclear whether the title is in joint names or a sole name. If joint you’ll need to both transfer it to your sole name if you just want just you on the new mortgage. 

You’ll need a form RX3 and ST5 (statement of truth) to cancel the restriction and show that the trust/need for the restriction has ended 
Our online guidance explains what the ST5 will need to cover 

Chresol84

Hi, 
I am buying a 2 bedroom flat from my landlord and have got everything else in place ready to exchange contract but the only thing holding us up is registration of the lease extension.  How long does it take for the extension to be registered if expedited? We really need everything closed out by  next week Friday 24 April 2020.

Many thanks for your help.

grumpypudding

Hello Mr Land Registry!

Ive spoken with Land Registry a few times they are great on the phone but I see now due to the Corona issues you guys are not taking calls.

So after a bit of google found this post, I wondered if you could help me with a situation I have been placed in.

I have found out that some land my grandfather owned, which has been passed through wills to myself, is unregistered.

We have the original indenture from 1871 here all 2ft by 2ft of it, and the necessary chain of wills showing my ownership, what is the process for registering the land? We do not live anywhere near the land for reference.

Ive had a brief look on the land registry and can see that a small portion of the land has a possessor title on it claimed in 2018, a whole different can of worms with this as the land is open and accessible by 3 properties so I fail to see how the people that have claimed it could have properly?

But my main concern for now is just registering the land and the process

Thanks

Dan

MEA3583_2

I'm dealing with the estate of my late Uncle, and recently posted a couple of very specific questions to the Land Registry as follows:
"Dear Land Registry,
Apologies for having to contact you at this very busy time. I am dealing with the estate of the above title, given the recent death of my uncle and could not find the specific answers I was looking for in the guide regarding deaths.
This title is currently registered as tenants in common between my late uncle and his wife at 50% each. His portion (50%) is to be split and transferred according to his will as 'tenants in common' to his two children, each taking 25% each, with his wife retaining her current 50%. His wife will apply for Probate if required, as she is executor.
I have two questions relating to this:
. What specific forms do I need to process this scenario (I could not find any guidance for passing on his 50% on and splitting it into 2 x 25% tenants in common.)
2. Will probate be required for this? (I've assumed that it will and am in the process of making an application).
Many thanks you for your help"

The response I got back from LR was :"Please see practice Guide 6 below which explains our requirements
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor/practice-guide-6-devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor"

I'm still no clearer in finding the answer I was looking for by following that link, Can anybody help explain in simple terms? 

Thank you!

da_rule

Chresol84 said:

Hi, 
I am buying a 2 bedroom flat from my landlord and have got everything else in place ready to exchange contract but the only thing holding us up is registration of the lease extension.  How long does it take for the extension to be registered if expedited? We really need everything closed out by  next week Friday 24 April 2020.

Many thanks for your help.

The Land Registry’s average completion times indicate that you’re looking at about 40 working days (although expect longer with COVID). The person who made the application can request for it to be expedited if there is a genuine reason, however next Friday is quite optimistic. 

da_rule

MEA3583_2 said:

I'm dealing with the estate of my late Uncle, and recently posted a couple of very specific questions to the Land Registry as follows:
"Dear Land Registry,
Apologies for having to contact you at this very busy time. I am dealing with the estate of the above title, given the recent death of my uncle and could not find the specific answers I was looking for in the guide regarding deaths.
This title is currently registered as tenants in common between my late uncle and his wife at 50% each. His portion (50%) is to be split and transferred according to his will as 'tenants in common' to his two children, each taking 25% each, with his wife retaining her current 50%. His wife will apply for Probate if required, as she is executor.
I have two questions relating to this:
. What specific forms do I need to process this scenario (I could not find any guidance for passing on his 50% on and splitting it into 2 x 25% tenants in common.)
2. Will probate be required for this? (I've assumed that it will and am in the process of making an application).
Many thanks you for your help"

The response I got back from LR was :"Please see practice Guide 6 below which explains our requirements
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor/practice-guide-6-devolution-on-the-death-of-a-registered-proprietor"

I'm still no clearer in finding the answer I was looking for by following that link, Can anybody help explain in simple terms? 

Thank you!

Is the land registered? If so you’ll need to complete an AS1, AP1 and ID1’s for the beneficiaries. You’ll need probate and have to send a copy to the Land Registry (so make sure you pay for a few copies of the grant when you apply for it). 

If the land isn’t registered the assent will trigger first registration. You’d again need an AS1 and ID1’s but you’d also need a FR1 and to be able to deduce (prove) title (i.e. you’d need to send the deeds to the Land Registry). 

MEA3583_2

da_rule said:

MEA3583_2 said:

I'm dealing with the estate of my late Uncle, and recently posted a couple of very specific questions to the Land Registry as follows:
"Dear Land Registry,
Apologies for having to contact you at this very busy time. I am dealing with the estate of the above title, given the recent death of my uncle and could not find the specific answers I was looking for in the guide regarding deaths.
This title is currently registered as tenants in common between my late uncle and his wife at 50% each. His portion (50%) is to be split and transferred according to his will as 'tenants in common' to his two children, each taking 25% each, with his wife retaining her current 50%. His wife will apply for Probate if required, as she is executor.
I have two questions relating to this:
. What specific forms do I need to process this scenario (I could not find any guidance for passing on his 50% on and splitting it into 2 x 25% tenants in common.)
2. Will probate be required for this? (I've assumed that it will and am in the process of making an application).
Many thanks you for your help"

The response I got back from LR was :"Please see practice Guide 6 below which explains our requirements
link..

I'm still no clearer in finding the answer I was looking for by following that link, Can anybody help explain in simple terms? 

Thank you!

Is the land registered? If so you’ll need to complete an AS1, AP1 and ID1’s for the beneficiaries. You’ll need probate and have to send a copy to the Land Registry (so make sure you pay for a few copies of the grant when you apply for it). 

If the land isn’t registered the assent will trigger first registration. You’d again need an AS1 and ID1’s but you’d also need a FR1 and to be able to deduce (prove) title (i.e. you’d need to send the deeds to the Land Registry). 

Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it. The land is registered yes, and I've bought the titles online. It has both my late uncle and aunt as owners with a tenants in common restriction. I am applying for Probate too. I've done it previously for another relative, but that was just a simple transfer of Joint Tenants, not TIC. Assume one of those forms allows me to specify the % ownership of each? e.g. 50% (aunt as present), 25% each to beneficiaries (from deceased's 50%)?
Also, my aunt is going to be the only executor that will apply for probate. Is that sufficient to deal with this?

Land_Registry

Chresol84 said:

Hi, 
I am buying a 2 bedroom flat from my landlord and have got everything else in place ready to exchange contract but the only thing holding us up is registration of the lease extension.  How long does it take for the extension to be registered if expedited? We really need everything closed out by  next week Friday 24 April 2020.

Many thanks for your help.

Expedition means it will be considered ASAP. We can’t be definitive re timescales as our registration services are significantly disrupted. But expedition puts it in the best place to be processed ASAP. 

My advice in such circumstances is to keep speaking to those involved re sale/purchase and to be as flexible as possible around dates when you are reliant on registration completing in time. Your solicitor can monitor progress online 

Land_Registry

grumpypudding said:

Hello Mr Land Registry!

Ive spoken with Land Registry a few times they are great on the phone but I see now due to the Corona issues you guys are not taking calls.

So after a bit of google found this post, I wondered if you could help me with a situation I have been placed in.

I have found out that some land my grandfather owned, which has been passed through wills to myself, is unregistered.

We have the original indenture from 1871 here all 2ft by 2ft of it, and the necessary chain of wills showing my ownership, what is the process for registering the land? We do not live anywhere near the land for reference.

Ive had a brief look on the land registry and can see that a small portion of the land has a possessor title on it claimed in 2018, a whole different can of worms with this as the land is open and accessible by 3 properties so I fail to see how the people that have claimed it could have properly?

But my main concern for now is just registering the land and the process

Thanks

Dan

Practice Guide 1 explains how to apply for first registration 

If the lands been inherited over the years then it needs to be transferred by the executor to the beneficiary. That will trigger the need to register so it’s a compulsory first registration 
See our assisted guidance on how an executor transfers unregistered land/property to the beneficiary 
And finally if it’s been in the family for decades then you’ll need to show a chain of representation re executors from grandfather onwards. 

So for example it should be his executor that would transfer the land. If his executor has also died then it’s their executor who transfers and so on. So you’ll need to look at that chain to see who it is that has the legal authority to transfer it now. The wills don’t play a part in the registration process 

Land_Registry

MEA3583_2 said:

da_rule said:

MEA3583_2 said:

I'm dealing with the estate of my late Uncle, and recently posted a couple of very specific questions to the Land Registry as follows:
"Dear Land Registry,
Apologies for having to contact you at this very busy time. I am dealing with the estate of the above title, given the recent death of my uncle and could not find the specific answers I was looking for in the guide regarding deaths.
This title is currently registered as tenants in common between my late uncle and his wife at 50% each. His portion (50%) is to be split and transferred according to his will as 'tenants in common' to his two children, each taking 25% each, with his wife retaining her current 50%. His wife will apply for Probate if required, as she is executor.
I have two questions relating to this:
. What specific forms do I need to process this scenario (I could not find any guidance for passing on his 50% on and splitting it into 2 x 25% tenants in common.)
2. Will probate be required for this? (I've assumed that it will and am in the process of making an application).
Many thanks you for your help"

The response I got back from LR was :"Please see practice Guide 6 below which explains our requirements
link..

I'm still no clearer in finding the answer I was looking for by following that link, Can anybody help explain in simple terms? 

Thank you!

Is the land registered? If so you’ll need to complete an AS1, AP1 and ID1’s for the beneficiaries. You’ll need probate and have to send a copy to the Land Registry (so make sure you pay for a few copies of the grant when you apply for it). 

If the land isn’t registered the assent will trigger first registration. You’d again need an AS1 and ID1’s but you’d also need a FR1 and to be able to deduce (prove) title (i.e. you’d need to send the deeds to the Land Registry). 

Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it. The land is registered yes, and I've bought the titles online. It has both my late uncle and aunt as owners with a tenants in common restriction. I am applying for Probate too. I've done it previously for another relative, but that was just a simple transfer of Joint Tenants, not TIC. Assume one of those forms allows me to specify the % ownership of each? e.g. 50% (aunt as present), 25% each to beneficiaries (from deceased's 50%)?
Also, my aunt is going to be the only executor that will apply for probate. Is that sufficient to deal with this?

If I have read this correctly then the property is registered in the joint names of your late uncle and your, still alive, aunt. As such the legal ownership has passed to your aunt so if it’s to be transferred to her and the beneficiaries then she needs to transfer it using forms AP1, TR1 and ID1s as appropriate. 

Probate is not required and the transfer would be by her to her + beneficiaries 

The % split you refer to relates to their beneficial ownerships. The form A restriction was presumably applied for to protect that split and the interests of the beneficiaries in his %share. 

If a new split is to be agreed then that can be done and the form A left in place to protect any new split/interests created. If they want to specify the % split in the TR1 they can do. Such arrangements are often recorded in much more detail as well e.g wills, trust deed or otherwise but we don’t then register such details as the form A restriction is invariably sufficient from a registration/legal ownership perspective