Being taken to court for unpaid rent for 3 months we were not there. HELP!

clutton_2

just because i am a LL does not mean that i condone poor practice and illegal actions by other LLs.

i also suggest that the OP does everything in his power to not get a CCJ - - i have seen friends' lives totally disrupted for a long long time because of it.

there is no counter claim - the OP has not suffered any financial loss - the LL has - no rent for a period of time.

i repeat an AST is legally binding on both parts and if the tenants could not have afforded the rent they should not have signed it. i know this is not what you want to hear.

mitigate your loss and move on - that is my most heartfelt advice - dont let this experience fester in your soul - it will only make you bitter, and life is too short for that.

There are good LLs out there.

BobProperty

fimonkey wrote: »

A lot of ppl on this board are LL's who are obviously biased.

I'm an ex-landlord and I'm now renting and I don't think I'm biased.

whowants2brich wrote: »

Very interesting post, irritating scenario to be in but one which I'm sure isn't the first and won't be the last where LL tries to retrospectively stitch up tenants...

Rule 1. The law is always right.
Rule 2. When the law is wrong, rule 1 applies.
The OP signed a tenancy agreement for 12 months and walked out of it after 4 and a bit months.
Ignorance of the law is not a defence.
Go and re-read my post #20 and tell me where the case fails in law.

Back to the practicalities. Offer to pay the rent up to 11th July and point out that this is all they are likely to get from a court hearing because their thick LA (don't use the word thick though) wrote to you saying you should have been out by 30th June and you believed them.

coal9011

clutton wrote: »

just because i am a LL does not mean that i condone poor practice and illegal actions by other LLs.

i also suggest that the OP does everything in his power to not get a CCJ - - i have seen friends' lives totally disrupted for a long long time because of it.

there is no counter claim - the OP has not suffered any financial loss - the LL has - no rent for a period of time.

i repeat an AST is legally binding on both parts and if the tenants could not have afforded the rent they should not have signed it. i know this is not what you want to hear.

mitigate your loss and move on - that is my most heartfelt advice - dont let this experience fester in your soul - it will only make you bitter, and life is too short for that.

There are good LLs out there.

My God! ..... clutton's human after all!, not just a "Dickensian" style landlord/LA

He's right. I think - in this case - you will have to put it all down to experience. You have got into a right mess, which I am sure that you will not repeat in the future. Now is the time to hone your negotiating and communication skills and try to do "a deal" with your Landlord (try to cut-out the agents, as the LL is the "boss"). You can mention - as he will know - that it will be quicker and cheaper for everyone in the long run (not to mention less stressful).

Don't even think about going bankrupt - this is not a big enough issue over which to do so. A CCJ will have "impact" over the way you run your life over the next 6 years, but not quite as much as some on this site have said, as there will aways be somebody willing to lend you money with a CCJ - you will just have to pay MORE for that money.

I'm all for "fighting for your rights" but your position is too messy, complex and to a degree, of your own making and in some part due to naivety (sorry) - from which I am sure that you will learn. "Good Luck".

doodledoodle24

BobProperty wrote: »

Offer to pay the rent up to 11th July and point out that this is all they are likely to get from a court hearing because their thick LA (don't use the word thick though) wrote to you saying you should have been out by 30th June and you believed them.

Hope you have a cup tea to hand.

I'm sending the LL a letter offering to pay for up until the above. If she doesn't except and it still goes to court I'll explain to the court I thought an agreement had been made to end early (which by the sounds of things on here, will be just waisting time as I'm naive and haven't paid attention to the law).

The thing I need some clarity on, if the court does say's that I'm a mug for thinking that I can just agree to end early and I have to pay the whole ammount to LL, can the court make me pay all of it. If me and my friend are jointly responsible for the rent then surely they should be forcing the rent arrears half and half.

On the Particulars of claim for possession it says

th Third defendant (My guarantor) guaranteed that the First defendant (Me)will keep to his obligations in the agreement. The Third defendant agreed to be responsible to the Claiment for any loss, damage, costs or other expenses(including rent) arising out of the First defendant's breach of, or failure to comply with, the obligations and responsibilities of the agreement.

If I stand up in court and say that I'm able to pay my share therefore guarantor isn't liable, the second defendant is.

All the digs about being naive is fine, all the posts telling me that I'm not going to win I can swallow.
However, if it turns out that my guarantor has to pay for the second defendant not paying. I'm worried that I'll be in court soon again as a witness in a murder charge, as the second defendant will probably no longer be with us.

In all seriousness, it looks like I'm gunna get stiffed here (1 point to all the LL's out there) but I didn't want the LL to be out of pocket either. That's why I made it clear to the EA that I wanted to come to an agreement to end early as I didn't want the LL to have an unlet property on their hands.

I seeked advise before moving out and knew that I would still be liable to pay, as you can't juat abandon a property. But again I thought that the agreement had been made (please no more naive jabs, I know already).

I have a letter from the Community Legal Service Direct dated 17th July, (Was put into contact with them through Shelter MissMoneyPenny)
in that it confirms that the LL told the EA they wanted us out by July 1st but wasn't given written notice. CLSD where the ones that said I potentially have a case for counter claim.

I don't know if will help me in court, but I just want to prove that I wasnt trying to stiff anyone.

This situation is taking over my life at the minute.

Also, as money is so tight i was thinking of visiting Luton uni tomorrow to see if anyone in their final year of law could further help me or would be willing to defend me for a small fee. I then have some kind of representation that know more than i do, and they get some experience i guess!

What do you guys/girls think????

Gorgeous_George

A definition of joint and several liability

An undertaking by a group of two or more people to be responsible, either individually or jointly, for any liability which may exist after any member or members have failed to meet their obligations. For example if a group of four people enter into a joint and several liability on a bank loan, then in the event of two of the members reneging on their obligations the remaining two members become fully responsible for the repayment of the loan.

doodledoodle24

Gorgeous_George wrote: »

A definition of joint and several liability

If noone turned up at court then the guarantor would be fully liable?

When I turn up I'm fully liable?

So my friend sign the agreement, pays one months rent, moves out and wipes his hands clean of liability. If this is the case how do I go about get money out of the second signature.

The reason I'm in this mess is
A) I'm naive
I wrongfully witheld rent
C) I could afford to pay the whole amount due to the second signature moving out.

If we signed the agreement, all moved out in the first week of moving, and then all got taken to court over unpaid rent arrears. Why should I be the one that has to pay it all, just because I'm the one that turns up at court.

I should have studied law in my youth, instead of women, cars and beer.

barnaby-bear

doodledoodle24 wrote: »

If noone turned up at court then the guarantor would be fully liable?

When I turn up I'm fully liable?

So my friend sign the agreement, pays one months rent, moves out and wipes his hands clean of liability. If this is the case how do I go about get money out of the second signature.

Sounds like the LL/LA can pursue any of those signed the tenancy and the guarantor for the full amount if jointly liable, so will go for the softest target - probably the guarantor. The guarantor can then pursue whoever he agreed to guarantee (that's why they asked for a guarantor and what he agreed to do) so you can pay him if you think right thing to do or he can try and recover the money from you via the courts. You or the guarantor would also have to pursue the bloke who disappeared after a month via something like small claims court, which you can do online. If he isn't working or has no money or assets though then although you theoretically can claim costs as well as the money owed you'd probably get it at £1 a week if he couldn't afford more. The LA ask for guarantor's and joint liability because they don't want to get involved in groups of friends falling out and pursuing lots of different people and they want someone able to pay to chase as they aren't goign to want £1 a week.

barnaby-bear

doodledoodle24 wrote: »

Also, as money is so tight i was thinking of visiting Luton uni tomorrow to see if anyone in their final year of law could further help me or would be willing to defend me for a small fee. I then have some kind of representation that know more than i do, and they get some experience i guess!

What do you guys/girls think????

Small claims generally frown on people using professional representation they have statements about it not being necessary and they won't award costs generally, it's going to be hard to argue naivity / poverty etc if you look like the type of person with cash to burn and professional representation.

doodledoodle24

Right so I can claim the money from then friend if I the court rules that everything needs to be paid to the LL.
I'm cool with the £1 a week, as long as I'm not paying his share.

I just wish I'd have known to get written notice of ending the agreement early.

barnaby-bear

doodledoodle24 wrote: »

Right so I can claim the money from then friend if I the court rules that everything needs to be paid to the LL.
I'm cool with the £1 a week, as long as I'm not paying his share.

I just wish I'd have known to get written notice of ending the agreement early.

Yep, it's pretty common
http://www.small-claims.co.uk/landlord_tenant.htm
" For tenants the two main problem areas which can be rectified using the Small Claims Track are:

• The return of rental deposit.
• Recovery of shared rental from a joint tenant."

But do it directly rahter than a firm that charges a fee/%
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp