Being taken to court for unpaid rent for 3 months we were not there. HELP!

MissMoneypenny

doodledoodle24 wrote: »

I have a letter telling us we are liable for the gas charges from 02/03/2007 in that states 'We reperesent the landlord of the above property' but thats it. They also signed the tenancy on behalf of the LL.

So the agency represent the landlord, they signed the contract and they gave you a letter telling you that you should have been out by 30 June. Doesn't that mean they told you to get out?

Do you have contents insurance cover with legal cover?

Did you contact shelter and ask them?

MissMoneypenny

NovaBlack wrote: »

you know what you could say....


since you werent being given a gas safety certifacate (after asking multiple times) (and which broke the law by not providing you with one) , you could claim you moved out because the house was not safe to live in

Plus they had a 2 year old with them.

These LLs who flout the law and don't provide gas safety certificates, make me sick. I hope they get done for it and get a big fine as a lesson to all the other sh&t landlords.

My cousin is an EA (well we all have black sheep in the family) and he said they see a lot more bad LLs than they see bad tenants.

PLEASE talk to Shelter about this. They worked hard to try to stamp out these type of "people".

Debt_Free_Chick

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

So the agency represent the landlord, they signed the contract and they gave you a letter telling you that you should have been out by 30 June. Doesn't that mean they told you to get out?

I think this is quite an important point that needs clearing up.

At the moment, we don't know whether it was an eviction notice - and if it was, it doesn't sound like it was lawfully correct

Or if it was worded as an acknowledgement of the tenant's intention to vacate the property In which case, I think the OP is stuffed as they were still within the AST!

clutton_2

a legally binding eviction notice has to be within the "prescribed form" - ie quoting which Housing Act and which section blah blah - a letter will not be deemed to be a notice of eviction in law.

your youth may have some sway in that you might argue that you could not possibly have known what a "prescribed form" was - but - the judge may well say - why did you not seek advice at that time from CAB or someone ?

i personally dont think you have a legal leg to stand on - unfair as that may be. Judges uphold the law - they cannot interpret it and cannot change the rules because s/he feels sorry for the claimant.

MissMoneypenny

Anybody can set themselves up as a letting agent and and many don't know the laws they are required to comply with. Yet a tenant is required to know those laws?

Perhaps it is about time laws are put in place to do something about EAs/LLs.

moneysavinmonkey

Bear in mind a CCJ on your credit record may make it difficult to rent other places. You really should avoid it at all costs.

If you are determined to defend you case in court (and I don't think this is the best option) make sure that you have some money set aside incase you loose and have to pay up within 2 days. I do think that you will end up paying more due to court fees than if you settle the case now.

Also you keep saying that you moved out 30 june, but in fact you didn't hand the keys back until 11 July so you had 'possesion' of the house in March-April-May-June-July. but you have only paid for 3 months rent?

The other thing is you say that the house was rented by your partner Adam & his friend but you also lived there with your child. Did you have permission to live there from the agency/landlord. Just to check this now as they might bring it up.

guppy

What were the repair issues? Could they be argued to make the property unfit to live in? I imagine not since you presumably saw the property before you agreed to rent it.

On the facts, I think you or whoever it is that is being sued needs to try and settle with the LL out of court as soon as possible, if you're lucky maybe they will give you a reduction for the disrepair. If it goes to court, it sounds like you are likely to lose, and will incurr the LL's costs too.

fimonkey

OP, are you still reading this thread? Your getting a lot of good 'legal' and 'sensible' advice, but beware who it's coming from. A lot of ppl on this board are LL's who are obviously biased. They'd be fuming (and out of pocket) to miss out on rent, regardless of the state of their property. The one's who are stating you are legally wrong are right of course, but are they also LL's who do not want to examine the moral and personal issues? (which have no place in the world of money anyhow).

I'd like to offer you some personal thought (that'll probably get me shot down in flames from the others on this board).

You say you're not bothered about CCJ's, from that you don't need a good credit record then? And yes you CAN rent with a bad credit history, just go through a private LL and not an agency, who are generally useless and out to rip you off, (give a deposit, give a reference, -not a forged one, perhaps a personal referee)

If the above is true, and in the future you're not likely to be in a position to need credit (i.e you more or less live hand to mouth financially, no savings, perhaps on benefits/low income) then how about seeing the CAB and either

a) admitting responsibility and offering to pay a small amount of the debt per week. SUCH a small amount it'll p*ss off the LL but there'll be nothing he can do about it as you've offered your best. (ie you're on a low income, you can only afford £2.00 per week. (Question, if OP went to court could this kind of order be made anyway)?

b) Could OP go for an IVA? (or is that essentially the same as a) above?)

c) Declare yourself bankrupt! after 7 years it's all forgotten about anyway? This'll mean they'll pursue one of the other tennants or guarantor for the rent. Depends on how ruthless you want to be? If your credit record's gonna be stuffed anyway, may as well be stuffed full and proper?

OK, it may be evident I have no knowledge of what I'm talking about, but once upon a time I was 21 and a tennant with a complete banker of a LL. My very young naivety meant i did not know how to play the 'game' and almost got stitched up big time. (I was morally right, legally wrong - whether that's right/wrong or good/bad is another discussion) ...The only way I fought back was to make it damn blummin hard for the LL to find me to take me to court, by which time he'd given up anyhow (before you all jump on your 17.22hh horse, I HAD attempted to pay back arrears in suitable installments AND was in similar position to OP in that rented place was in disrepair AND tenancy was shared between others, but LL was going after me as I was deemed the soft touch'). So my advice is to play dirty I suppose! After all, if you can't play by the rules of the game, play by your own rules.

Anyway OP, keep us informed, and to the ther respected MSE'ers, (especially the LL's) let your shooting commence!

guppy

Sorry monkey, but that's terrible advice. I hardly call going bankrupt, "playing by your own rules".

Funnily enough the OP reminded me of my own experience of getting scammed by a LL back when I was less enlightened. I never lost a deposit but I put up with disrepair when I shouldn't have for way too long.

Putting yourself in to bankruptcy merely to avoid paying what a court says you owe would be seriously stupid. Not so much cutting off one's nose to spite their face as much as complete financial self-destruction for no real reason.

My advice to try and settle was offered as the most rational and cheapest solution to what appears to be an unwinnable dispute. Annoying, but a necessary evil in my opinion.

Best way to get your own back would be to stick around on this site, learn your rights, and resolve never to get mugged again.

whowants2brich

Very interesting post, irritating scenario to be in but one which I'm sure isn't the first and won't be the last where LL tries to retrospectively stitch up tenants...

a) see a CAB specialist as soon as possible. The Citizens Advice Bureau have trained specialists on housing disputes, and they will be able to give you impartial and free advice. They may even be able to accompany you to court if you are lucky. There's no harm trying.

b) if the EA signed the tenancy agreement, and then wrote a letter to say that you've agreed that the tenancy will end and that you'd be out by x date, then you may be able to claim that as far as you were concerned, that was the end of the agreement. If they had intentions of playing things differently, then they had a legal right to chase you for the missing rent as it fell due - not 3 months later.

c) as they didn't chase you for the rent as it fell due, and as other posters have already pointed out, the EA probably had no intention of getting other tenants in whilst the repairs were carried out, the EA were in the wrong for not notifying you of the outstanding rent, not proactively seeking new tenants and not seeking to limit the time that the property was uninhabited. I assume that this is why September's rent is not mentioned, because they had found new tenants by then - convenient in my eyes.

d) if the EA want to punt £250 for this court case, to potentially win £2100, then that's a good return. they may have their own solicitor, as someone else has mentioned - any legal representation will erode any potential gain for the LL or exacerbate any potential loss for the tenants. however, if the EA are aware that they intentionally misled the tenants by sending an incorrectly produced eviction notice (or something that they knew that the tenants would interpret as such, but that a court would not recognise) then they have acted unlawfully (intentionally misleading someone to believe that something is above board whilst knowing that it is not) - they may agree to step back and settle out of court.

e) failing all this, see if you can present these facts to a solicitor, you may be able to get them to represent you on a no win no fee basis, paying a solicitor to save you £2100 and/or a potential CCJ may be better than giving a dodgy EA and thieving LL what they think that they can get. if you can't get a solicitor, write out these points coherently and hope that the judge accepts these points - they may throw the case out, in a kind of tit for tat way. you could potentially counterclaim and as such, your claim would cancel out their claim and so you both walk away owing nothing.

finally, I must add that I am no lawyer, no EA, no LL - in fact I am a tenant myself (sharing with my OH who is a solicitor). I don't claim to know anything about the legal profession, but I do know a bit.

and on that note, good luck - and please let us know the outcome, whatever happens.

whowants2brich