What's wrong with the EU and how it effects House prices

cogito

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Since we're talking about migrants:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-election-schulz-idUKKBN1A80K9?il=0

Having succeeded in keeping out the large numbers last year as previously seen in 2015, will Germany be able to continue this feat for the next two months before their elections?

It's all talk though, isn't it? We've heard the same thing from Macron who's keeping his borders closed to migrants and the Austrians have army vehicles stationed at the Brenner Pass to keep migrants out. The EU has simply dumped the problem on the Italians and Greeks and, to a lesser extent, Spain and Malta. Schultz is simply saying things that a man who wants to get elected would say.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

cogito wrote: »

It's all talk though, isn't it? We've heard the same thing from Macron who's keeping his borders closed to migrants and the Austrians have army vehicles stationed at the Brenner Pass to keep migrants out. The EU has simply dumped the problem on the Italians and Greeks and, to a lesser extent, Spain and Malta. Schultz is simply saying things that a man who wants to get elected would say.

Absolutely true.
This is however yet another of the EU "cans" that has been kicked down the proverbial road for quite a while and still keeps returning only to require kicking yet again.
Spain is seeing increased numbers of migrants.
Greece is seeing an increase recently despite the supposed efforts of Turkey - should we mention Turkey and their apparent dissatisfaction with Germany and the EU?
Italy, well I guess it's obvious by now how they feel.

Although Schulz was indeed electioneering it is obvious that something has to be done and equally obvious that the EU - after three years - still has no effective response.

GreatApe

Sapphire wrote: »

The people of the different nations of Europe don't just 'see each other as peoples of different countries and cultures'. It is exactly what they are. They each have very distinct histories and cultures, and have developed along their own paths, in some cases for over a millennium.

Where you do have small nations within nations, as in the UK, they are more or less united by very long and close histories. They know each other very well, have much in common, and have lived with each other for centuries (with intermarriages, migrations to and forth within the countries, the sharing of political systems and the monarchy, etc.). Yes, there have been disagreements in such countries, as there are in any population, but on the whole they are united through their shared experiences. This is something that is certainly not the case between the countries of continental Europe, and is unlikely to ever be. They need to be allowed to develop their own destinies, not be forced/bribed into some pretence of a 'union' run by one major powerful country. It's a project that is ultimately doomed to fail, and that will involve deeper problems the longer it is left to fester.

The Americans are unified as a country, like the UK, due to their own specific, very 'young' history and their roots. Even in America, though, there are controls at borders between the states, as well as differences between the legal systems of American states (e.g. some states still carry the death penalty, while others do not)…

Europeans share a long history and there have been extensive intermarriage not just on the continent but also with the British. My next door neighbors are for instance half Italian half English. The ones on the other side Half French Half English. They have children who I consider full English you certainly could not tell they were not unless you knew it. The parents while speaking perfect English still retain their respective accents. These families have been married for over 20 years so before free movement came about. This has also been true for the best part of 200 years sometimes I watch that BBC program 'who do you think you are' and many times people who think they are 100% British turn out to be descendants of migrants from Europe

What separates us is I think primarily language not genetic closeness.
For instance do you feel closer to Australians and Americans than say Bulgarians? Why?

Herzlos

We've been sharing a history (and even some Royalty) with Western Europe for thousands of years now. It's not as if we've lived in a bubble separate from Europe since inception. Very few us are are pure British, even if you go back 20+ generations. I'm of Scandinvian descent from some time prior to the 1700's.

The US also isn't as homogenous as you'd assume, there are massive differences between the extremities, and the occasional war. Sure they all speak the same language (except in the bits they don't) but beyond that superficial level they aren't necesarily that similar.

movilogo

1. Freedom of movement for all, no matter their backgrounds (including when they have criminal backgrounds that impact the countries they come to), and the enforcement of this directive.

That is the most powerful driver which has led to Brexit.

gfplux

Now we know why British roads are so crowded. It all the Irish exports going to cross the Channel. I imagine you all knew this but it is a surprise to me.
This from Politico
"It is impossible to overstate the importance of the British transit route: Some 80 percent of the Irish road freight that reaches mainland Europe passes through the U.K."

After Brexit they should find a different route and keep the motorways clear for British people.

http://www.politico.eu/article/cargo-food-production-producers-brexit-burns-irelands-british-bridge-to-eu-markets/?utm_source=POLITICO.EU&utm_campaign=82ed40cd83-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_07_24&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_10959edeb5-82ed40cd83-190026745

"Lacey said moving toward so-called ConRO vessels — hybrid ships designed to take containers as well as trucks — could become attractive after Brexit. ConRO crossings already exist between Dublin and Rotterdam, but Lacey said these are still roughly 12 hours longer than the landbridge."

They need to get faster ferrys!

Sapphire

GreatApe wrote: »

What separates us is I think primarily language not genetic closeness. For instance do you feel closer to Australians and Americans than say Bulgarians? Why?

I disagree. It is vast historical and cultural differences that separate us, not language (or genetics, which you've referred to in your post) – differences in national characteristics, if you like, because nations are like people, each with its own unique characteristics, which is actually what makes them interesting, in my view.

And yes, I feel much closer to and at ease with Australians and North Americans – and for that matter New Zealanders, and white Zimbabweans and South Africans – than I do to people with origins in continental European countries. I've worked with many Americans, Australians and others from similar nations, as well as with some people from continental European countries. Several of my closest friends are North American and Australian. I've also had acquaintances, and indeed relatives, from continental Europe. I like them, but the differences between their national characters are very clear to me – it's wishful thinking to try and deny it.

Herzlos

But our cultures aren't that different with Europe - beyond us Americanizing since the 50's, we've had a shared/overlapped culture with Western Europe since we were fighting the Romans. We've all got a fairly common history, religion, legal system, military, etc. It's partially why I got bored of visiting Europe on holiday - there's only so many identical feeling churches and castles you can visit before getting bored of it. If you want a differnt culture you need to leave Europe and go to North Africa, or the Middle/Far East.

We have dominated the US/Austrailian history though, so they may seem more like us, because we've been around a lot longer.

And to be fair, our culture is nothing like that of the native Americans/Australians either. Most of the Americans we share the culture with are European as well.


Personally I feel like I have more in common with my European work contacts than my American ones, once you get over the superficial language thing (and all of my European contacts speak better English than I do).

Sapphire

Herzlos wrote: »

We have dominated the US/Austrailian history though, so they may seem more like us, because we've been around a lot longer.

And to be fair, our culture is nothing like that of the native Americans/Australians either. Most of the Americans we share the culture with are European as well.

Personally I feel like I have more in common with my European work contacts than my American ones, once you get over the superficial language thing (and all of my European contacts speak better English than I do).

Agree with the first two paragraphs – though I'd suggest that we (or some of us) have affinity with North Americans (barring Native Americans) via common roots, which stretch a very long way back. (I don't know whether Italians, say, feel the same sort of affinity with Italian Americans…)

However, that hasn't been my experience when it comes to your third paragraph. It's not just a question of language, as I said, but of shared experiences and very varied histories over many centuries, resulting in nations with distinct identities. In continental Europe, perhaps the most similar to each other are the Nordic nations, though each of them is distinct, too. The Slav nations are not really that similar (e.g. Poles, Russians, Czechs), despite originating from the same tribes, due to their quite separate histories and different cultures, which arose many centuries ago. I suppose the closest to the Poles are the Ukrainians (in terms of national character), but that's because the Ukraine arose from a collection of Russians and renegade Poles…

On a gut level, I have much more affinity and more in common with the Americans, etc. I've mainly worked with, several of whom became very good friends, than with people of continental European countries. This isn't to say I dislike the latter – in fact, I value their distinct cultures and what they've each contributed in terms of the arts, for example (and their quite distinct arts were also shaped by their histories). The differences make them more interesting to me, and what made them worth visiting. I don't like globalisation, as you may have guessed…

kabayiri

The facts are clear.

The migrant flows show no signs of ending. People still seek a better economic future in Europe, many from Africa.

There is no real evidence to show that this potential prosperity can be met. As a result, we see rising unrest in migration centres from Finland to Sweden to Italy and Greece.

The potential for direct conflict with locals increases by the week.

I think FOM will be dead in the water in 5 years max. Hopefully, we can sit on the sidelines and watch.