What's wrong with the EU and how it effects House prices

cogito

gfplux wrote: »

How sure are you that the border is closed at Ventimiglia? That is a very important crossing point.

Quite sure. I went through it both ways last year without a problem. Vehicles were able to pass through but pedestrians were stopped by the police. The French have recently instituted procedures to search vehicles entering France from Italy.

LHW99

the Dublin Agreement (forced through by Sarkozy)

Therefore I wonder why France has not dealt with the Calais problem by returning migrants to the country they first entered / dealt with them in France.
Reflects the general hypocrisy in EU dealings, such as some countries allowed to bend rules to join the Euro, but not others. Some countries allowed to give State aid to banks, but not others etc.

GreatApe

The problem perhaps the route of all of it is that the countries all speak different languages and thus the people see each other as peoples of different countries and cultures.

This isn't the case in America with its fifty states they see each other as Americans. Or with the countries of the UK who see each other as one (apart from some Scots)

All the negative arguments about the EU could be made within the UK. Like the person near the beginning of the thread but directed to the uk

1. Freedom of movements of all people regardless of their background. Well Scottish criminals are free to move to england or Wales

2. Failure to solve the migrant crisis. Arguably just the same thing in the UK. Many of the leave voters were voting for less migration and half of the UK migrants are non EU so domestic failure to do anything about that.

3. Just look at Scotland and it's attempts to leave

4. Same thing is said about London vs the other regions

5. All groups give up some rights. Yorkshire doesn't have its own currency or own army or ability to make its own laws its done in Westminster.

6. A general comment that can apply to all countries at all times. For instance I think HS2 in the UK wipp go down as one of the worlds worst wastes of capital.

7. Back to Scotland again.


Personally I think leaving the EU won't be a massive differenceeither positive or negative. The biggest impact will be we will need to increase the retirement age by 1-3 years. Already happening faster than planned as per the recent news that the government is brining forward the increased age if retirement meaning 6 million additional years will need to be worked and 6 million fewer years of retirement for the UK public.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

gfplux wrote: »

How sure are you that the border is closed at Ventimiglia? That is a very important crossing point.

Have a read of this:

Much like the rest of Italy, Ventimiglia has been left alone to deal with a humanitarian crisis that is growing dramatically and that now threatens to undermine the fragile unity of the EU, which is appearing to ignore the problems faced by its members in the south.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/22/italy-feels-heat-europe-slams-door-on-migrants

Sapphire

GreatApe wrote: »

The problem perhaps the route of all of it is that the countries all speak different languages and thus the people see each other as peoples of different countries and cultures.

This isn't the case in America with its fifty states they see each other as Americans. Or with the countries of the UK who see each other as one (apart from some Scots)

The people of the different nations of Europe don't just 'see each other as peoples of different countries and cultures'. It is exactly what they are. They each have very distinct histories and cultures, and have developed along their own paths, in some cases for over a millennium.

Where you do have small nations within nations, as in the UK, they are more or less united by very long and close histories. They know each other very well, have much in common, and have lived with each other for centuries (with intermarriages, migrations to and forth within the countries, the sharing of political systems and the monarchy, etc.). Yes, there have been disagreements in such countries, as there are in any population, but on the whole they are united through their shared experiences. This is something that is certainly not the case between the countries of continental Europe, and is unlikely to ever be. They need to be allowed to develop their own destinies, not be forced/bribed into some pretence of a 'union' run by one major powerful country. It's a project that is ultimately doomed to fail, and that will involve deeper problems the longer it is left to fester.

The Americans are unified as a country, like the UK, due to their own specific, very 'young' history and their roots. Even in America, though, there are controls at borders between the states, as well as differences between the legal systems of American states (e.g. some states still carry the death penalty, while others do not)…

Thrugelmir

GreatApe wrote: »

This isn't the case in America with its fifty states they see each other as Americans. Or with the countries of the UK who see each other as one (apart from some Scots)

That's a very narrow view. Given there's been some 150 years over which immigrants have had time to integrate. Pockets still exist to this day where still people retain their homeland culture.

fatbeetle

gfplux wrote: »

How sure are you that the border is closed at Ventimiglia? That is a very important crossing point.

From teh Grauniad;

There was a time when French police would judiciously patrol the border while on the prowl for shoppers unwittingly transporting counterfeit purchases from the market. But since early 2011, when the migration crisis began in earnest as the Arab spring turned north African societies upside down, they have made the passage impenetrable to those desperately trying to join relatives or seeking a better life in northern Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/22/italy-feels-heat-europe-slams-door-on-migrants

gfplux

GreatApe wrote: »

The problem perhaps the route of all of it is that the countries all speak different languages and thus the people see each other as peoples of different countries and cultures.

This isn't the case in America with its fifty states they see each other as Americans. Or with the countries of the UK who see each other as one (apart from some Scots)

All the negative arguments about the EU could be made within the UK. Like the person near the beginning of the thread but directed to the uk

1. Freedom of movements of all people regardless of their background. Well Scottish criminals are free to move to england or Wales

2. Failure to solve the migrant crisis. Arguably just the same thing in the UK. Many of the leave voters were voting for less migration and half of the UK migrants are non EU so domestic failure to do anything about that.

3. Just look at Scotland and it's attempts to leave

4. Same thing is said about London vs the other regions

5. All groups give up some rights. Yorkshire doesn't have its own currency or own army or ability to make its own laws its done in Westminster.

6. A general comment that can apply to all countries at all times. For instance I think HS2 in the UK wipp go down as one of the worlds worst wastes of capital.

7. Back to Scotland again.


Personally I think leaving the EU won't be a massive differenceeither positive or negative. The biggest impact will be we will need to increase the retirement age by 1-3 years. Already happening faster than planned as per the recent news that the government is brining forward the increased age if retirement meaning 6 million additional years will need to be worked and 6 million fewer years of retirement for the UK public.

Good point about retirement age. Those immigrants working in Britain are young. When they have gone the retirement age will have to be looked at again. The recent surprise change might be the Government planning for a post Brexit world. That is good as there has not been enough forward planning recently as events have got in the way.

gfplux

fatbeetle wrote: »

From teh Grauniad;

I love the Guardians line, "unwittingly carrying counterfeit" Much of the reason for visiting the market in Ventamillia was to buy copies of famous brands.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Since we're talking about migrants:

Germany needs to take action now to prevent a re-run of 2015, when some 890,000 migrants arrived in the country, Chancellor Angela Merkel's Social Democrat challenger for a September election told Reuters on Sunday.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-election-schulz-idUKKBN1A80K9?il=0

Having succeeded in keeping out the large numbers last year as previously seen in 2015, will Germany be able to continue this feat for the next two months before their elections?