Parking Eye PCN - Two Saints retail park, Ormskirk

didactosaurus

Can anyone please offer advice? Wishing I'd paid the bloody thing now. I'm no solicitor and am not confident representing myself in court, nor do I want to give in and pay these !!!!!!!s a penny for having the temerity to park while I spend money in the bloody shops, but I don't see any helpful replies so far from anyone bar contacting landlord (no response) or Argos (1 of 5 main stores on there, why would they help and surely they can't now P eye have issued) & I can only see that court is a gamble on the judge's opinion of private parking fees & whether this 10 minute grace period actually counts. P eye seem very confident they will win. I wish I'd bit the bullet and paid the £60 now. God I hate this rip off country at times!

Rant over and once again if you can help please do.

nosferatu1001

There are lots of helpful replies. You're just taking the easy approach and only checking your thread, not the other dozens of threads.

If you havent already acknowledged the case, you only have a couple of days to do so or get your defence in.

The Principal can intervene even when an agent has issued proceedings. Takes about five minutes to google that.

Acknowledge, do your research and post a draft defence, taking on board the many arguemtns available to you by simply reading other recent threads, or pay up. Your choice.

didactosaurus

Apologies for my comment about no helpful replies - I was very tired after a long journey home to come and find a county court claim waiting for me.

I've been trying to deal with this using my phone and it is very hard to search and navigate the forum. I'll try to get on a computer shortly which will hopefully help.

In the meantime, if any of you super-kind people in the know are aware of a successful defence at this stage in a similar case (10 minute overstay in a '1st hour free' ANPR car park, no ticket bought) and could post a link to helpful thread(s) I can access on my phone, I will be very grateful.

Going to keep ringing/emailing Fairacre and drive over to Argos with receipt and claim form to see if they can/will help.

didactosaurus

Argos are refusing to help, saying it's nothing to do with them, I need to contact the site owner.

didactosaurus

Managing agent seems to be Cushman & Wakefield, commercial estate agents in Manchester. Have left a message for them.

didactosaurus

They're no longer managing it, back to chasing Fairacre directly

didactosaurus

Landowner's agent refused to instruct them to cancel - instead offered to 'negotiate a reduced rate', which, when I weighed up the time cost and chance of further loss, I was forced to accept. I'm fuming but it looked too uncertain for me to fight in court. Despite searching and reading as many threads as I could, I couldn't find a case like mine at this stage that was won.

While this was ongoing, I complained to BPA about POPLA's decision and P Eye's conduct and received this reply:

"Good afternoon,

Thank you for your reply .

When Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras are used, the period of parking begins when the vehicle enters the site, rather than when a ticket is purchased. We note you state that the first hour of parking is free.

In relation to grace periods at the end of the parking contract, the BPA Code of Practice states as follows: “You [Parking Operator] should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.”

In this instance, the vehicle remained on site for 1 hour, 10 minutes and 31 seconds. As the Parking Charge Notice has not been issued within the 10 minute grace period, we are unable to advise that there has been a breach of the Code in this instance and as such, we are unable to assist you further.

Please note that the BPA has no authority to address complaints regarding the internal processes, or investigate the assessment and decisions made by POPLA. Any complaints of this nature should be directed to POPLA.

Yours Sincerely,

---

AOS Investigations Team
British Parking Association"

The BPA officer states: 'When Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) cameras are used, the period of parking begins when the vehicle enters the site, rather than when a ticket is purchased.'.

Referring to the 'red hand rule', then, surely all such sites should state IN MASSIVE LETTERS ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE SITE: 'Parking on this site is controlled by ANPR cameras - please note that YOUR PARKING PERIOD BEGINS AS SOON AS YOU ENTER THE SITE'.

And don't get me started on that 'Grace Periods' comment. None allowed at the start, then, but 31 secs over a period at the end? Surely that goes against their code completely! Either that or the advice on these threads that there is a Grace Period at the start AND the end is incorrect and needs to be updated.

How bloody unfair and uncivil are these people? Unfair contract terms abound. Oh, that I were rich enough in time or money to fight these thieves. Unfortunately I'm not.

I'm still pursuing this with my MP.

beamerguy

shame you bowed down to this scam because of the BPA

The BPA have become a useless organisation and have been
for the last couple of years

The BPA have lost so many members to the scam IPC
they can ill afford to upset PE

There is a grace period of min 10 mins either side of entry
and exit.
This allows you to change your mind on entry and any delay
on exit such as a traffic jam.

Your MP must be made aware that the BPA is not fit to be
an ATA and that a proper regulator must be installed

Tell him to talk to Jacob Rees-Mogg MP
Jacob seems to be the only MP who understands the scam

Coupon-mad

I can understand why you paid to settle it, was it around £60 to £75, that's what I would expect?

Do the signs clearly state at the entrance that the time begins as you drive in, and how the ANPR data will be used?

I am astonished that POPLA upheld this charge re 10 mins 35 seconds (unproven seconds!) but it sounds like the POPLA appeal wasn't very strong on the two grace periods point. We are not wrong on that, you can check the BPA code of practice and there are TWO periods of grace, and the BPA's own Kelvin Reynolds confirmed it:

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/good-car-parking-practice-includes-grace-periods

Did the payment you made come with a caveat that you admitted liability?

If not, I'd be tempted to sue the landowner for it back...not ParkingEye, the landowner for allowing this regime which is contrary to the BPA CoP and an unfair business practice.

I would also get your own back by updating your MP and pointing out that you are out of pocket despite the fact the BPA CoP was due to be updated TWO YEARS AGO, to 'a minimum of eleven minutes' (the BPA just never bothered). Look:

Professional Development & Standards Board meeting from 30th July 2015 where it was formally agreed by the Board that the minimum grace period would be changed in 13.4 of the BPA Code of Practice to read 'a minimum of eleven minutes':

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/Meeting%20Notes/Governance/20150730_PDandS_Board_Action_Notes.pdf

I would also complain to Trading Standards, in writing. You are right about the red hand rule, right about the ten minutes and right about the fact a driver MUST be allowed a few minutes at the start, even just to find a space. The BPA admit that too:

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/News/motorists-spend-nearly-four-days-a-year-looking-for-a-parking-space

Honestly I would send a LBCCC to the landowner of the site and see what they come back with, since they are vicariously liable for the actions of their agents in unfairly extracting £60 - £75 from you. The landowner won't like it at all.

Tell you what WOULD be worth doing - a LBCCC to the BPA as well, for failing to implement the eleven minutes...!