Adverse possession claim

thamesmatt

Having a bit of a nightmare....

There is a car park next to my house and they have recently applied to put a temporary car wash on the site ahead of building flats in a year or two.

On both planning applications we noticed there is a thin 1.8 m strip of unregistered land that runs the length of our house.

we spoke to a property developer friend and a nonproperty legal person who advised that we fence it off and claim it under adverse possession.

I checked with land registry and have our deeds, their deeds and both titles. 100% it is unregistered.

We believe it was historically ministry of defence land who sold the land for the car park to the present owner in1999.

We have lived there since 2006 and have occasionally planted flowers on the front bit to tidy it up but nothing that constitutes adverse possession

Anyway we duly erected the fence 6ft high, installed a gate and padlocked it as we were advised to do.

The next day the car park owner came round and ripped it down and parked 2 cars on it then stole the fence panels. We called the police and videoed it all and will have him for criminal damage.

However he is now occupying the land through a criminal damage act

He wrote a letter to me with all sorts of lies and exaggerations and claiming we trespassed on his land etc..but from a fairly bogus looking business and legal consultancy

I have done nothing to claim the land back as I wanted to de-escalate the situation.

I have spoken to a solicitor and it looks like it will cost me up to £2000 to ascertain whether I have a claim and to write to the car park owner in response to his letter

Firstly I want to find out the likelihood of success before I spend a large sum of money on solicitors. The land isn't very big and if I don't get it it's not the end of the world but I'm not going to let this horrible bloke simply take it after basically breaking in and stealing it.

I'm sure it's not worth that much and the benefit to me would be a nice area for a shed or BBQ. It might add £10k to the house price but I'm not planning to move so that's immaterial.

We have also written to the ministry of defence to see if they have any record of it.

There may be a chance they could prove it was an error in the sale in 1999 and rectify it. But more likely they carelessly missed it off.

He leases the car park to the local council as parking for a leisure centre so doesn't actually use it himself.

Any advice gratefully received

G_M

Have you checked the lad is actually unregistered? Just because it is not wihin your boundary, or the car park boundary, does not mean it might not be registered under a separate Title and owned by someone else.

Just double checking. Do a 'Map Enquiry' at the LR.

What are the police doing about the theft and criminal damage? Are the cars taxed etc? You can check online. If not, report.

Unfortunately, the land is not yours, so he has as much right to park there as you have to put up a shed etc. Retaliating against the cars would open you to criminal damage, and you have no case in civil law to force him to remove them (I don't think) as he's not trespassing on your land.

Unfortunately by erecting a 6ft fence, gate & padlock you have very forcefully drawn attention to the plot. I would have used a low, unobtrusive flimsy wooden fence and hoped it went unnoticed for 12 years.

Claims for Adverse Possession get looked into (after the requisite time has pased) by the LR, but if 2 individuals both claimed, I doubt either would succeed.

thamesmatt

Yes hundred percent not registered, did everything I reasonably could as a private citizen to find out who the land belonged to including the map search.

As I said completely deescalating it now.

Going to Small Claims Court to get fence money back. He has admitted criminal damage and it is on video.

Regarding the small fence, any attempt to claim the land would've been noticed because it is an open carpark. There was no way around this.

Unfortunately my property developer friend is rather more bullish than me on the sorts of matters and said we needed to direct a definite barrier with a gate and padlock where we deny others entry

If the land was Ministry of defence land as we suspect then AP claim would be 30 years not 12 I believe

I have heard of caution needs to 1st registration. Is this an option?

patman99

Try getting in quick with registering the piece of land. Should cost around £1,500 in Solicitor's fees. The process usually involves posting a 28 day notice on the boundary of the land and in the local press.

If the land is indeed, unregistered, you will become the owner, if the car park owner can prove the land is his, then you lose £1,500.

G_M

patman99 wrote: »

Try getting in quick with registering the piece of land. Should cost around £1,500 in Solicitor's fees. The process usually involves posting a 28 day notice on the boundary of the land and in the local press.

If the land is indeed, unregistered, you will become the owner, if the car park owner can prove the land is his, then you lose £1,500.

I'm more pessimistic.

OP has lived there for 11 years, but has not treated the land as his own for the whole of that uninterrupted period. Planting occassional flowers will not make a strong claim.

OP had a few days of 'ownership' while the fence was up. Car park owner will doubtless claim the same by virtue of parking on the plot. This could be a protracted. expensive disputed claim ending up with neither of them gaining AP.

I have heard of caution needs to 1st registration. Is this an option?

No idea what you mean. Link?

thamesmatt

Does the fact we tried to claim "squatters rights" and were evicted by a criminal act count for anything as he could do the same I guess (and may have done).

Unless it's an error in 1999 when he bought it he is not the owner.

And in fencing in we have set our AP ticking?

I'm really struggling with the gap between possession a civil matter and criminal damage a criminal matter as I could go round smashing up fences and claiming things willy nilly if I was that sort of person

patman99 wrote: »

Try getting in quick with registering the piece of land. Should cost around £1,500 in Solicitor's fees. The process usually involves posting a 28 day notice on the boundary of the land and in the local press.

If the land is indeed, unregistered, you will become the owner, if the car park owner can prove the land is his, then you lose £1,500.

Richard_Webster

Try getting in quick with registering the piece of land. Should cost around £1,500 in Solicitor's fees. The process usually involves posting a 28 day notice on the boundary of the land and in the local press.

If the land is indeed, unregistered, you will become the owner, if the car park owner can prove the land is his, then you lose £1,500.

This is rubbish. OP clearly has not had a 12 year period of possession.

G_M

Hey Richard? Welcome back. Nice holiday?

thamesmatt

G_M wrote: »

I'm more pessimistic.

OP has lived there for 11 years, but has not treated the land as his own for the whole of that uninterrupted period. Planting occassional flowers will not make a strong claim.

OP had a few days of 'ownership' while the fence was up. Car park owner will doubtless claim the same by virtue of parking on the plot. This could be a protracted. expensive disputed claim ending up with neither of them gaining AP.

No idea what you mean. Link?

Thank you for this. I'm in no mood to waste thousands of pounds and the associated stress which is causing sleepless nights already.

One thing though he doesn't use it he leases the bit he owns to the council.

I am enraged by his action and would like to stop him using it if possible but that's not a reasonable logical thing just an emotional reaction

thamesmatt

Richard_Webster wrote: »

This is rubbish. OP clearly has not had a 12 year period of possession.

I haven't. I had a skip on there for 7 weeks with the permission of the council who lease the car park and then the fence.

It's been overgrown scrub since I lived there. Neither of us have maintained it

thamesmatt

G_M wrote: »

I'm more pessimistic.

OP has lived there for 11 years, but has not treated the land as his own for the whole of that uninterrupted period. Planting occassional flowers will not make a strong claim.

OP had a few days of 'ownership' while the fence was up. Car park owner will doubtless claim the same by virtue of parking on the plot. This could be a protracted. expensive disputed claim ending up with neither of them gaining AP.

No idea what you mean. Link?

Form FR1 I think or maybe CT1 from land registry