Indigo PCN - Train Station

PinkR

Hi,

I have a bit of an interesting situation I've read through the newbies post and had a bit of a search, the keeper has recieved a PCN marked as PENALTY NOTICE BY POST NOTICE TO OWNER.

The situation is that the driver entered the local railway station car park (with ANPR) in order to work out what was wrong with a motorbike and the driver jump started it. In hindsight the driver should have just wheeled it elsewhere but there isn't a lot of space to do so safely in the area and it was dark.

The car park does have a free 20 minute limit and the driver thought they were within this (Again in hindsight the driver should have checked their machine but the driver has never parked there before) The driver must have been just over the threshold, they have only given me a time which would be the exit time, but not the entry time or duration.

Is it best off explaining the situation or leaving it be.

And now they would like £100/£60 if paid within two weeks. I'm also going to get a photo of the parking sign there as it would appear there can be a lot of issues with those.

The letter also mentions the Railways Act 2005 Byelaw 14 and section 219 of the Transport Act 2000. And mentions that it could be perused with a private criminal prosecution via a magistrates court with a fine up to £1000.

I hope I've covered everything, any advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Is it best off explaining the situation (obviously that would confirm I was the driver) or leaving it be.

Neither. Use the template for BPA members, from the NEWBIES thread.

Be careful on the Indigo appeals page, it asks if you were driving - DO NOT say yes. It then forces you to fill in some 'name/address of driver' boxes. Just put 'A N Other' and in the address part, put 'I have no responsibility to tell you who the driver was, so don't ask'.

And now they would like £100/£60 if paid within two weeks.

I am sure they would, but we would like you top know, you do NOT have to pay a penny.

The letter also mentions the Railways Act 2005 Byelaw 14 and section 219 of the Transport Act 2000. And mentions that it could be perused with a private criminal prosecution via a magistrates court with a fine up to £1000.

And...that's why you will win at POPLA! They lied.

Redx

bylaws apply

edit the first post and remove any hint of who did what

use 2 terms , THE DRIVER , and THE KEEPER

the words "ME , MYSELF and I" are banned (or do you not think that a PPC monitors public forums)

send the blue text appeal to the PPC

then use INDIGO POPLA in the forum drop down search box , tick show posts and search for similar threads about INDIGO , POPLA etc and do the same as they did , but only from 2017 , nothing older

as bylaws apply, stay as keeper and "no comment" is the watchword here, tell em nowt !!!

dont dig a hole and bury yourself in it when no hole is required

PinkR

Thank you for the quick response. I'll send off the BPA template as is then.

I will update with their reply.

Redx

and you will edit post #1 too (wont you ?)

after 6 months has elapsed, the threat of magistrates court disappears (not that the TOC ever take people to magistrates court)

PinkR

RedX, noted thank you. And I'll have a search now.

Redx

check who "jump started it" too

PinkR

Thanks again.

I've found this template with the modifications which seem to be correct in this instance, should this be good to send?

Dear Sirs

Re: PN No. XXXX

I challenge this 'PN' as keeper of the car.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

The Penalty Notice mentions 'This cark park is regulated by the terms and conditions of parking displayed at the car park in accordance with Railway Byelaw 14'.

There is no Railway byelaw known as: 'Breach code 01: Parked without displaying valid payment'.

Furthermore, there is nothing in the Railway Byelaws that states that a private firm has any power to impose a ‘penalty’.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.
You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days. I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

PinkR

Okay I've been reading further, as I understand on this initial appeal I should do it towards the end of the 28 day appeal period. I've already had a look at the appeal form and I'm happy with that, and saved the letter as a PDF ready to attach and send to them.

Redx

if using the above appeal, check the bylaw breach number is correct , amend it if its incorrect

change the bit about OBTAIN to :- have obtained

because they have already done it (as you had a postal notice to the RK)

the reasons for the delays are to string it out past the 6 month mark , due to the bylaws issue being in play

your original plan may have worked if this was going to the magistrates court, under the bylaws , but at the moment , its not , hence plan b

once INDIGO refuse your appeal, they should issue a popla code , then you adapt a popla appeal for railways and INDIGO and submit that just before 28 days (do not miss these 28 day deadlines though)

popla are then likely to put the matter "on hold" as they are awaiting DoT guidance on bylaws matters (this seems a new devealopment)

this also means it should string it out past that crucial 6 month deadline as regards magistrates court on the bylaws issues

so dont expect this to be over and done with anytime soon

be good if indigo withdraw, but they dont usually do so, so assume they wont and plan accordingly

PinkR

Great thank you for the detailed outline of the process. I'll go by this and see what happens.