Care Home fees - protecting parent's savings

macmanyoung

Hi - first post so apologies if it is in the wrong area!

My mum is 73 and relatively healthy - she lives on her own (widowed) in a bungalow she owns outright (approx £150k market value). She also has approx £60k in savings. I want to be in a position where her money is protected just in case, in the future, she needs to go into a care home. I know there is a £14,000 (approx) threshold point for funded care home payments - but is this rising to over £100,000?

I know from much research there is no real way of safeguarding this money as it would be seen as avoidance - and if her property is signed over to her 3 sons - even then it would be seen as avoidance (as well as the 7 year policy). Even with her savings - she can only 'gift' so much a year.

So my question is this - is there a genuine, legal, and easy way to protect her savings?

One idea I thought of is to open up a bank account in her son's names (me and my 2 brothers) - and she withdraws money from her savings and puts it into this account. The money would still be hers (me and my brothers are trustworthy) - but just in our name - and all 3 of us to be signatories. I guess withdrawing money from savings would also be seen as avoidance? What if she withdrew her money in cash over a period of time and this cash put into this account - would this be noted by the authority? Surely she can do whatever she likes if she withdrew cash - it's her money?

Mum is very keen to do something like this so her three sons have some kind of inheritance.

Sorry if this sounds quite mercenary - we have recently been through all this with my late Uncle (Mum's brother) who had put money aside for his family, only for it all to go on care home fees when he suffered a heart attack and needed care. Something no-one had predicted

I don't believe there is a lot we can do with her property - we have been advised NOT to sign it over to the sons in case of marriage break-ups - it provides risky security.

Thank you for reading! Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Regards

Mojisola

macmanyoung wrote: »

Mum is very keen to do something like this so her three sons have some kind of inheritance.

Sorry if this sounds quite mercenary - we have recently been through all this with my late Uncle (Mum's brother) who had put money aside for his family, only for it all to go on care home fees when he suffered a heart attack and needed care. Something no-one had predicted

Which would you prefer - your mother gets to chose her care home rather than live in a council-funded one or you get some inheritance after your mother dies?

Malthusian

One idea I thought of is to open up a bank account in her son's names (me and my 2 brothers) - and she withdraws money from her savings and puts it into this account. The money would still be hers (me and my brothers are trustworthy) - but just in our name - and all 3 of us to be signatories. I guess withdrawing money from savings would also be seen as avoidance? What if she withdrew her money in cash over a period of time and this cash put into this account - would this be noted by the authority? Surely she can do whatever she likes if she withdrew cash - it's her money?

If the money is still hers then it will be assessed. If she gives it away to you with the aim of avoiding care fees then it is deliberate deprivation and it will still be assessed as if she still had it.

I don't believe there is a lot we can do with her property - we have been advised NOT to sign it over to the sons in case of marriage break-ups

You have been advised correctly.

I imagine your mother hasn't lived in the bungalow all her life. When she left her previous home for the bungalow she didn't get to keep her previous home and have the taxpayer buy her the bungalow to "protect" her money - given the figures in your post, she probably had to sell her old home in order to buy the bungalow. Why do you think it should be different if she leaves her bungalow for a care home?

As Mojisola says there is no reason on the face of it that she should even want to throw herself on the mercy of the state rather than choose how she is cared for.

xylophone

If your mother put her savings into an account in the names of you and your brothers with the intention of creating or increasing entitlements to benefits, this would count as deliberate deprivation of capital.

http://www.whentheygetolder.co.uk/care-fees-funding-and-deprivation-of-assets-the-rules/

justme111

macmanyoung wrote: »

Sorry if this sounds quite mercenary - we have recently been through all this with my late Uncle (Mum's brother) who had put money aside for his family, only for it all to go on care home fees when he suffered a heart attack and needed care. Something no-one had predicted


Regards

No one had predicted that he would get older , suffer from ailments and at some point need care ?
If your mum is keen to live you inheritance then one of you would have to look after her - simple solution. But you work you would say and can not do that ? - then she would have to pay to be looked after by professional carers. I find it outrageous that people honestly believe it is ok for local authorities to fund care of their parents while they receive inheritance. Every pound of your inheritance if it was the case would be taken from the pocket of struggling public services - From schools where children with special needs are not classed as such due to no money in school budgets to provide them with special support and as a result all children have a teacher who deals with behaviour issues rather than teaches. From local police that does not investigate robberies from vehicles due to being overloaded with work and demoralised due to cuts resulting in people not feeling protected. From minor injury units that close resulting in people having to travel to bigger hospitals putting even more pressure on A&E resulting in other people sitting there for hours in pain . From those care homes that are paid inadequately by local authorities resulting in charges for private residents being triple of what LA residents are paying and care homes closing.
Malthusian , the difference between their mother selling another house to buy bungaloo and trying not to sell bungaloo/spend her savings to fund care home is that for those who have nothing care is free while nobody gives houses for free if one has nothing. People feel tempted to play the system.
Op, Do not take it personally, you are just a part of society that thinks it is fair to get inheritance while not getting their hands dirty changing incontinence pads and asked here in good faith. Hope your mother will not need care that you would be unable to provide and so you will not be tempted to consider ways to get money from her house while letting public finances to support her.

alanq

Information from AgeUK.
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/home-and-care/care-homes/deprivation-of-assets-in-the-means-test-for-care-home-provision/

Keep_pedalling

Protecting her savings? protecting my inheritance is what you really mean.

With a bit of luck she will never need care, spend the £60k on nice stuf for herself, and leave her house to the local cats home.

le_loup

macmanyoung wrote: »

I want to be in a position where her money is protected just in case, in the future, she needs to go into a care home.

Why? So you can spend it?
You are asking me to pay the care home fees of someone who has enough to pay for them herself so that you get the cash. Did you offer to pay for my mothers five years in a care home?
Just think a little further than you have.

teddysmum

The £14250 is the level below which all care is paid for (when pension income falls short). Then there is a sliding scale of help up to £23250,beyond which all is self funded (unless eligible for ongoing nursing care).


The £10000 was mentioned in the Tory election proposals, where they suggested that people staying at home should have the house included, as is the case for care homes, now.


However, they didn't make it clear whether the £100000 was what one could keep or the replacement threshold for £14250 or £23250. However, I asked our prospective (now current ) MP and he didn't know and neither did the door to door rep., who hinted that he thought the government hadn't actually thought about it but decided that £100000 sounded good.


Anyway, after the backtrack, this is on hold anyway.


We all hate having gone without to save for nice things only having to spend on nasty essentials like care, (especially when some who didn't bother get the same , free), but that's the way it is.

Mojisola

If Mum needed to go into care - and most people don't - there would be a financial assessment to see if she has over £23,250 (if she's in England).

With the house, she obviously will have so would be self-funding.

Any pensions plus benefits like Attendance Allowance would go some way to paying the care home fees with the capital from the house making up the difference. Some people manage to cover these costs by renting out the property.

The average stay in a care home is only about two years (although, of course, some people live for much longer).

Even if Mum lives long enough to use all her savings, she will still leave £23,250 to divide between the three of you.

If it's not already in place, see if Mum will agree to setting up a POA so that the family have control over her finances and health decisions if she becomes incapable herself.

Glen_Clark

I agree with the consensus of this thread. But there are 2 sides to every story, and no-one has put the other side. We pay taxes for a NHS in case we fall ill and need care. I suspect most of us have had things done on the NHS which we had the money to pay for our-self. Some might view the effects of old age as health problems that should similarly be paid for by the NHS. In an ideal world perhaps it would be. But in the real world we can't afford it - especially since people are being kept alive for longer by very expensive NHS treattments - a double whammy for the taxpayer..