TONIK - billing error?

K.S.

I have recently had a statement generated from my new supplier that highlights my energy use over the course of 6 weeks since i joined them on the 10th of May, the electric is correct but the gas is (i believe) way off.

This statement has a gas energy use that I am currently disputing, as my own readings state one while their statement states a much MUCH higher figure, which has seen my gas cost multiply by more than 10 to reach a price that can't possibly be right, given that I hadn't used the heating much at all due to the weather! and even if i did it would not cost anywhere near this amount as i live in a 1 bed flat with half the radiators turned off.

I am currently talking to TONIK and trying to get this sorted out, but does anyone have any advice as they are not budging and stick to their statement.

To clarify, i have given a KWH reading and they have taken it as an m3 reading instead and calculated from there.

K.S.

An update, after talking to TONIK again we have come to an understanding and i will need to provide proof of weekly gas m3 usage to fix the readings and correct my bill.

System

K.S. wrote: »

To clarify, i have given a KWH reading and they have taken it as an m3 reading instead and calculated from there.

I am not surprised that the supplier is confused. Nobody should ever give gas readings in kWhs when meters only record the volume of gas in cubic feet or cubic meters.

How have you calculated the kWh figure given that it varies day to day depending on the calorific value of the gas supplied by the National Grid. The volume to kWh formula for a metric meter is:

KWHs = units used x CV x 1.02264 / 3.6

You can download the CV for your region and billing period from the National Grid website but it then has to be truncated for billing purposes. This might explain why the supplier wouldn’t accept your kWh calculation.

K.S.

their site doesn't specify which figure i had to provide, and the old supplier sent them both figures in KWH so i assumed i would continue using KWH when providing gas readings

i'm using smart meters and KWH appears immediately on both

the new supplier isn't confused, they are happy to assume i have used nearly 8 months of full heating in the span of 6 weeks and bill me for it

Robin9

When you say you are using "Smart Meters" do you mean the cheap In House Display ?

You should be using the reading from the actual meter - mine only gives m3.

System

K.S. wrote: »

the new supplier isn't confused, they are happy to assume i have used nearly 8 months of full heating in the span of 6 weeks and bill me for it

The reason why 'they are happy' is because you have provided them with a reading in kWhs and their system thought - quite reasonably - that the reading was in cubic metres. One cubic metre =c.11.2kWhs. The kWh reading on your IHD is for information only and it is only a guess as the neither the meter nor the IHD are linked to the National Grid website. Over the past 6 months, the calorific value of the gas supplied to my property has varied from 39.8 to 38.9. The higher the calorific value the greater the kWh figure will be for a given volume of gas.

For billing purposes, the supplier adds up all the calorific values for your supply region for each of the days that your bill covers and then comes up with an average figure. Under Ofgem rules, if this average figure is, say, 38.49 then you are billed for a calorific value of 38.4. There is no smart meter on the market that I am aware of that does this detailed calculation. For a metric meter they tend to use a fixed multiplier of 11 xx to show kWhs on the IHD. Why - because your gas tariff has a kWh price.

I

K.S.

It should have been specified which value they wanted, regardless.

My old supplier gave them the KWH value when handing over final readings, which I have just been updating the new supplier on, call it ignorance on my part as I was never told or informed that I should've been providing m3 instead.

Robin9: Smart meters as in the actual meters, the in-house display usually comes supplied with them doesn't it? the gas meter itself shows both m3 and KWH, but as I have said I never used m3 when dealing with my old supplier (which billed me correctly using KWH).

System

K.S. wrote: »

Robin9: Smart meters as in the actual meters, the in-house display usually comes supplied with them doesn't it? the gas meter itself shows both m3 and KWH, but as I have said I never used m3 when dealing with my old supplier (which billed me correctly using KWH).

We are all billed in kWhs for the gas we have used. Meters record the volume of gas that passes through the meter. In the case of a smart meter, readings are passed directly from the meter (not the IHD) to the supplier in cubic meters or cubic feet. Their billing system then carries out the volume to kWh conversion for billing purposes.

If your smart meter is no longer smart then you have to read the meter and pass the actual reading to your new supplier. If you check your gas bill it will show you how many metric units have been used. You will see a calculation similar to this:

1. Units Used 123
2. x Metric Conversion 1.00
3. x Calorific Value 39.4000 (this varies day to day and by region)
4. x Volume Correction 1.02264
5. ÷ Volume Conversion Factor 3.6
6. = kWh 1376

In the example above, you are then billed for 1376kWhs at your agreed unit price per kWh.

K.S.

I know all of that already, what gave you the idea that i was confused? I have explained why i was giving KWH and that they instead need m3.

The only reason i continued giving KWH was because that was the value given by my old supplier to my new supplier and this value was on the meter readings page on the new suppliers website, why would i suddenly start giving m3 readings that produce a number far lower than KWH if KWH was the only value that seemed to be in use?

To reiterate, my gas meter shows both m3 and KWH, i don't run the m3 value through an elaborate calculation.

System

K.S. wrote: »

I know all of that already, what gave you the idea that i was confused? I have explained why i was giving KWH and that they instead need m3.

The only reason i continued giving KWH was because that was the value given by my old supplier to my new supplier and this value was on the meter readings page on the new suppliers website, why would i suddenly start giving m3 readings that produce a number far lower than KWH if KWH was the only value that seemed to be in use?

To reiterate, my gas meter shows both m3 and KWH, i don't run the m3 value through an elaborate calculation.

I am still struggling to understand what made you think that the supplier wanted a kWh reading for gas? To close this one down, all meters record volumes of gas in cubic meters or cubic feet. Meters have recorded gas volumes in this way since they were first invented. There is no smart meter installed today that reports back to any supplier in kWhs for gas. All suppliers' IT systems are set up to receive readings in cubic meters or feet.

You admitted in your opening post that:

Quote To clarify, i have given a KWH reading and they have taken it as an m3 reading instead and calculated from there. Unquote

Your old supplier would not have given Tonik any meter readings. Tonik will have asked you for a meter reading as the gaining supplier manages all aspects of an energy transfer. The meter readings that you provided Tonik would have then been passed to an independent industry third-party (the Data Collectors) for verification. Once verified, the reading would have been passed back to your old and new suppliers to close and open your accounts(ie, the same reading is used for both and it may be different from the one that you supplied). This closing/opening meter reading would have been in cubic metres. The only kWh figure passed between the two suppliers is what is termed your Annual Quantity (AQ): this is the amount of gas that you used in the past 12 months adjusted for annual climate differences. Your new supplier will use the AQ to estimate your future bills if you fail to provide meter readings. They only have to read your meter once every 12 months.

The IHD figure in kWhs is for information only not for billing.

K.S.

I've told you exactly what made me think that, read the entire thread, my old supplier sent final readings to TONIK which they gave in KWH (to close my account with themselves), which in turn appeared on my new TONIK account on the meter readings page.

You really aren't understanding this are you? the monitor shows KWH, meter shows KWH, meter readings page shows a number that could only be interpreted as a KWH value, yet somehow i'm supposed to give m3 readings without any hint as to such? I saw KWH values for both gas and electric on my account for the last supplier too, to further reinforce the idea that I should provide KWH readings!

Yes they have taken my KWH reading as m3 because that's how their system uses the number on the meter readings page, despite being given a KWH figure from my last supplier and putting this on the meter readings page as my "opening readings".

I can't even use the monitor anymore because the "smart" meters turned dumb so I have to manually enter my readings.