disagreement at work over using the phone while in the car, anyone know whos right?

d123

Car_54 wrote: »

This is a misinterpretation of the legislation.

Section 6 (a) defines "hand-held". Secion 6(c) gives examples, but does NOT define, “interactive communication function”

There is NO definition of "using".

My quote, which includes examples of "interactive communication" comes directly from the legislation. What other methods of interactive communication do you think aren't included?

Exactly which part of accessing the internet (i.e. using data) or receiving a text while the phone is held do you actually disagree with?

Amendment of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986

2. The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986(1) are amended by inserting after regulation 109—

“Mobile telephones

110.—(1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(2) No person shall cause or permit any other person to drive a motor vehicle on a road while that other person is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4).
(3) No person shall supervise a holder of a provisional licence if the person supervising is using—

(a)a hand-held mobile telephone; or
(b)a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4),
at a time when the provisional licence holder is driving a motor vehicle on a road.

(4) A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data.

(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention—

(a)he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;
(b)he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
(c)it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).

(6) For the purposes of this regulation—

(a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;

(b)a person supervises the holder of a provisional licence if he does so pursuant to a condition imposed on that licence holder prescribed under section 97(3)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (grant of provisional licence);

(c)“interactive communication function” includes the following:
(i)sending or receiving oral or written messages;
(ii)sending or receiving facsimile documents;
(iii)sending or receiving still or moving images; and
(iv)providing access to the internet;

(d)“two-way radio” means any wireless telegraphy apparatus which is designed or adapted—
(i)for the purpose of transmitting and receiving spoken messages; and
(ii)to operate on any frequency other than 880 MHz to 915 MHz, 925 MHz to 960 MHz, 1710 MHz to 1785 MHz, 1805 MHz to 1880 MHz, 1900 MHz to 1980 MHz or 2110 MHz to 2170 MHz; and

(e)“wireless telegraphy” has the same meaning as in section 19(1) of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949(2).”

The definition of using is quite easy to understand as well:

if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;

unholyangel

d123 wrote: »

My quote, which includes examples of "interactive communication" comes directly from the legislation. What other methods of interactive communication do you think aren't included?

Exactly which part of accessing the internet (i.e. using data) or receiving a text while the phone is held do you actually disagree with?



The definition of using is quite easy to understand as well:

The quoted text does not define "using". It defines "hand held mobile phone". As car54 says, using is not defined (nor is "held").

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road-traffic-offences-mobile-phones/

Terms of note:

Hand-held / Hand-held mobile phone
Regulation 110 (6)(a) states that a mobile phone or device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call, or performing any other interactive communication function.

The term "mobile phone" will cover cell-phones and smart phones.

Hand-held device
Regulation 110 (4) describes a hand-held device as any other device which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data, other than a two way radio using specific frequencies. Regulation 110 (6)(c) provides a non-exhaustive list of "interactive communication functions" such as: sending or receiving oral or written messages, sending or receiving facsimile documents, sending or receiving still or moving images, and providing access to the internet. Communication with the internet is included - the interaction does not therefore have to with another person.

Use
There has been some debate about what use means.

A phone or device will be in use where it is making or receiving a call, or performing any other interactive communication function whether with another person or not.

The particular use to which the mobile phone must be put is not defined as an element of the offence. The prosecution must merely prove that the phone or the other device was hand held by the person at some point during its use at a time when the person was driving a vehicle on a road.

However worthwhile noting that its all fine and well saying its not against the letter of the law in strict terms, but that won't necessarily stop you being pulled over & charged for it. Nor does it mean you haven't committed an offence - thats why the catch all offences of careless/dangerous driving exist.

Unless you're willing to pay the fine & take the points or take your chances & hire a solicitor to represent you, I'd recommend erring on the side of caution.

Alternative Offences
In cases where there is doubt about the nature of the device, or dispute about whether it is being used, the alternative offence under section 41(D)(a) of the Road Traffic Act 1988, contravening Regulation 104 (driving in such a position that he cannot have proper control of the vehicle) may be preferred.

trinidadone

d123 wrote: »

You can touch all you like, and the button on the wired head set doesn't meet the definition of "a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;".

If the phone is in a holder you aren't hand holding it and you are not committing an offence under sec 110 by touching it, whether you use a wired headset, a BT headset, BT connected to the car radio or even the loudspeaker on the phone.

Interesting, so if the mobile phone is in a in-car holder, and buttons are being pressed, that is not "holding the phone"so legal, correct - although over legislation like dangerous driving or duel car and attention is applied?

d123

trinidadone wrote: »

Interesting, so if the mobile phone is in a in-car holder, and buttons are being pressed, that is not "holding the phone"so legal, correct - although over legislation like dangerous driving or duel car and attention is applied?

Yes, and that's the opinion of a CPS lawyer, a whole shift of traffic police officers, and a police training officer.

Holding the phone has the usual definition as per the dictionary BUT using the phone in a holder could still be an offence if it causes your driving to "fall below the standard expected of a competent and careful driver". You would then be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention (careless driving).

trinidadone

d123 wrote: »

Yes, and that's the opinion of a CPS lawyer, a whole shift of traffic police officers, and a police training officer.

Holding the phone has the usual definition as per the dictionary BUT using the phone in a holder could still be an offence if it causes your driving to "fall below the standard expected of a competent and careful driver". You would then be prosecuted for driving without due care and attention (careless driving).

Thank you for the clear definition.

trinidadone

I found this interesting too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2zIuVoa-XA