PIP zero points (Assessment report)

SpiderOftheWeb

Hello everyone, today I received a letter from the PIP saying that I scored zero points on everything and that I will no longer be getting DLA. It was also followed by his/her reasons for not awarding me PIP. Their report on me was a pack of vile lies.

Before I write down lines from their report as well as my rebuttals, I will tell you that I have been suffering from anxiety, depression, moderate learning difficulties like ADHD as well as a sleep disorder for many years to the point that I can not go out without my carer or anyone that I fully trust thanks to my overwhelming paranoia, anxiety to the point that I feel physically sick as If someone is suffocating me. I will not go in full detail with my everyday life as that is for another post or even comment.

Here are his/her reasons as well my rebuttals:

-According to the assessor, I supposedly reported that I can travel independently to places that I have been and that I am able to use public transport on my own

My rebuttal: That is !!!!!!!! because I never reported such a thing. I told them that I need someone with me such as my carer or someone that I trust during my journeys and that the reason I hate going out is because I feel as If people are looking at me and talking behind my back. I also have panic attacks as I previously mentioned.

His/her report: I was able to participate through the assessment without being prompted by my carer and that I did not lean on my carer for support and reassurance.

My rebuttal: Every time my carer tried to talk to them or prompt me, they told my carer to 'shhhh' also I always looked at my carer for help and support but the assessor said that I only looked at him a few times.

His/her report: I currently manage on low dose first line antidepressant/anxiety.

My rebuttal: I rarely take my meds for the following two reasons: I need prompting to take my sleeping pills at the Right times or otherwise I end up taking them at about 12 or 1 in the morning. I don't like taking my 20mg antidepressants because either they don't work or they make me feel worse so obviously I am not coping well. Also, if I am in a worse state, I will end up taking another pill.

His/her report: I looked well nourished and clean.

My rebuttal: I clearly told them that the night before my assessment, my carer prompted me as he/she always does to have a shower because I don't like having showers when I am in a depressed state which causes me to lack motivation, I prefer to hide away in my room when I am in a dark place.

His/her report: They have decided that I can organise and follow the route of a journey unaided.

My rebuttal: Oh is that why the last that I attempted a journey (I was with a 'friend' but he left me stranded) I got lost and in a state of panic I had to phone someone to collect me. I can't plan my own journeys because I can't remember that much information about such a plan especially when the routes are so far and complex.

His/her report: I supposedly coped well with adequate rapport and eye contact.

My rebuttal: All through the visit I felt uncomfortable to the point that I wanted it over and done with. (My carer later told me that he/she also didn't like the assessor). Also my eyes were either on the ground or at my carer. I only looked at the assessor a few times to answer a question. Also my carer told me that I sounded anxious.

Me and my carer both had a bad feeling about the assessor and during the times that I talked about my mental health she seemed to downplay it such as the time that I tried telling them about my paranoia, she/he just said 'well everyone gets paranoid don't they'. She gave me those 'mental illness is just a phase' vibes.

She did ask if I ever attempted to kill my self and I said no but that I have had thoughts of suicide However, I failed to mention that I self harm when I am in a stressful dark place to try and get rid of that pathetic feeling and pain but the reason I never mentioned it is because no one including my carer knows and the reason is because I am deeply ashamed.

They also mentioned in the report that my concentration, intelligence and memory is 'adequate' just because I passed a few tests such as the serial seven and three stage command. During those tests, I really struggled with mathematic subtractions but the tests such as folding a paper in half, spelling Earth (or whatever the word was) backwards, remember three items on a table such as a pencil, crayon (and I think a ruler or staple) were tasks that a 7 year old could do.

They also mentioned the Stranger Danger scenario as If I am mentally challenged (sorry to those If I was politically incorrect) or a child. I mean what the hell has that got to do with my issues such as Depression and anxiety? I also can't cook unaided because I don't know how long to heat food or when that dish is ready also the last time that I attempted to cook meal, I ended up very sick but according to the report, I can cook unaided.

The fact that I have my own bank account went used against me despite the fact that it was my school and my carer who helped create it and apparently I use my card unaided despite telling them that my carer uses it for me.

This letter has caused me a great deal of stress and the strange thing about it is that the evidence I gave her including the report from a clinical psychologist contradicts the assessors report.

Muttleythefrog

Hmmm my posting effectively continues from ESA decision on another thread. Sorry to hear of this.... but what you describe is far from uncommon. If you haven't already got it then request the evidence they used to take their decision including the assessment Report (PA4 consultation report) but it sounds like you have it already. You have nothing to lose by asking for reconsideration and later appealing if necessary... and appealing I suspect will be ultimately necessary as the DWP do change decisions at reconsideration but not in the high percentage terms that tribunals currently seem to be doing.

My quick advice (and there is likely other people and threads where you can get more) is make sure you focus on the descriptors you feel apply to you.... challenge their decision/the assessment report as you see fit in doing that as you go through the various relevant activities. Remember you have a month to get reconsideration request in.. a month from date of decision letter so time has already probably passed hence my advice to all claimants to request assessment reports a working day or two after assessment. Make sure you repeat or reassert your difficulties relevant to the descriptors you argue as applying and refer to any supporting evidence you have.... and if you can get any more supporting evidence then obviously that's worth putting into the process.

Expect little chance of success at reconsideration (then at least you won't be disappointed or even more angry when they repeat the same nonsense) but do consider that it is worth making a solid reconsideration request in that it is very likely when you appeal against the new reconsidered decision your argument will be essentially the same to essentially the same (but new) decision detail (if it is!)

Obviously it is worth reminding you're far from alone in experiencing similar... may or may not make you feel better.... but I do think there is decent chance you'll get success in appeal down the line. If you do not then still all is not lost... at that time people may advise you make new claim.

(In my assessment the HCP said my speech contained normal content... yet the HCP ran out of the room screaming for help and stopped the assessment after I started rambling about killing her... I'd love to go to the parties she goes to where that's normal.. but never mind).

SpiderOftheWeb

Is it true that you can make another claim and still appeal? I was going to make this post in another part of the forum but I thought this was the correct one.

I find it disgusting how the assessors and I remember seeing a guy with parkisons at the center and he has that bad that his wife had to help him. I wouldn't be surprised if assessors turned him down too.

poppy12345

SpiderOftheWeb wrote: »

Is it true that you can make another claim and still appeal? I was going to make this post in another part of the forum but I thought this was the correct one.

I find it disgusting how the assessors and I remember seeing a guy with parkisons at the center and he has that bad that his wife had to help him. I wouldn't be surprised if assessors turned him down too.

Why would you want to make another claim and still ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration? The chances of them turning you down again would be very high because of your recent refusal. You're much better off taking the MR route then Appeal if that fails, which most do. Try to gather more evidence and get some help writing that MR letter. Concentrate on those descriptors where you should have scored points. You only have 1 month from the date of the decision so you have to act quick.

SpiderOftheWeb

I only asked if I should make a new claim because Muttley advised me too and I will attempt to get more evidence but what kind of evidence because it is stupid that Psychologist and GP report about me was not good enough.

Chrysalis

The DWP tend to only apply favourable reconsideration in one of 2 scenarios.

1 - where the cost is minimal e.g. saying should be in ESA SG instead of WAG. (for those who qualify for full WAG rates)
2 - When the evidence in favour of the claimant is overwhelming.

If they think they have a chance of winning an appeal they will be stubborn.

Sadly the new process is you "have" to ask for a reconsideration first, they have no time limit to make the reconsideration, when they have made the reconsideration and if its not what you want, then you can finally appeal.

An appeal is dealt with by the tribunal service who are independent from the DWP.

poppy12345

SpiderOftheWeb wrote: »

I only asked if I should make a new claim because Muttley advised me too and I will attempt to get more evidence but what kind of evidence because it is stupid that Psychologist and GP report about me was not good enough.

Having just re-read Muttley's post he didn't advice you to make a new claim. What he actually adviced was this....Obviously it is worth reminding you're far from alone in experiencing similar... may or may not make you feel better.... but I do think there is decent chance you'll get success in appeal down the line. If you do not then still all is not lost... at that time people may advise you make new claim. Meaning if the MR and the Appeal fails then make a new claim.

Your next step in all this is the MR then Appeal if that fails. Not a new claim.

Alice_Holt

This is a pro-forma for the first stage of the appeal.
https://www.leicester.gov.uk/media/178163/mandatory-reconsideration-request.pdf
You are asking the DWP to look at their decision again.
It needs to be completed within 1 month of the decision letter date.

It is rare for the DWP to change the decision at MR stage. So when you get the response from the DWP to your MR, it's likely you will need to continue the appeal to the tribunal service. Here is the form for this:
https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/sscs001-eng.pdf
You need to attach the MRN note from the DWP, and have one month from the MR decision notice to send this form to the tribunal service.

Here are some guides / info which you may find useful:
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-appeals
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/your-hearing/

Info on PIP points, and how they should be interpreted:
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547146/pip-assessment-guide.pdf Pages 86 on, and 97-134 are relevant.

It would be worth contacting your local CAB (expect a longish wait as they are always very busy!). https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/about-us/how-we-provide-advice/advice/
They may be able to help with your appeal.


Medical evidence is very useful, so see if your GP would support your appeal (the How to win your PIP appeal is useful on this). Your carer could also submit evidence to the tribunal.

Good Luck.

Muttleythefrog

Yeah just to confirm... as above... definitely would not advise making new claim now.... the process of reconsideration then appeal if required would take many months and hopefully thoughts of a new claim would never be required... but it is always a possibility of future or indeed if your disability/health circumstances changed down the line.

Chrysalis

If you get a favourable result at a tribunal it will get backdated, so I heavily advise following the above advise which is the MR, then the appeal, instead of a new claim.

The only time I have seen a new claim been advised is when condition has significantly worsened since the original claim.

SpiderOftheWeb

Yeah I just reread it. My mistake, sorry I got confused. We are going to arrange for a MR and also we will be booking an appointment at the CAB as well as checking out the links you guys have given me so thank you.

I can't believe how much the assessor has lied about me especially since evidence including a note from my GP and a clinical psychologist report that refutes her lies.

It is disgusting how many of us including myself and people a lot worse then myself were promised permanent DLA for life yet the government decided to scrap it and force people to take repeated PIP assessments every three weeks.