Work capability assessment, I scored 0 points.

KxMx

I realise the suggestion was well meant, unfortunately it is not that simple.

Genuine work from home, including IT, is very hard to find.

Lack a professional qualification, previous established experience etc and it's near impossible.

Even experienced employees of big companies asking to work from home have a hard time.

You would think on 2017 with all our technology, that working from home would be easy and readily available... It is not.

Iwanttobefree

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

t.

"January this year I got the letter asking me to feel in the capability for work form, and I put all the above on it (included a letter), I said that providing there's no huge problem with my back, I fully expect to be able to get some sort of part time job around April/May (I stressed I was still under the GP with it)." - I do not think that was a wise concession as it implies you feel there is minimal disability preventing you working and you expect it to soon be resolved.

True, but that was true at the time. I did fully expect to be able to get some sort of part time job once my knees were done, and I presumed my back was a temporary problem, that a bit of exercise/physio would fix.

Unfortunately this hasn't been the case.

This is the main cause of me being unable to take any job I can find, the others are an inconvenience but not a barrier to my working.

I've had a look at the links Alice posted above, unfortunately the one with the "take the esa test" wants money to do so, so that ones out.

When I look at various descriptions of ESA, I see things like, those ESA receive a higher rate than those on JSA because they face additional barriers as a result of their illness or disability, and typically take longer to move into work.

When I cant stand for more than 3 - 5 mins, cant kneel, cant squat etc, I don't see how I don't fall into that category. Every job I've looked at, I physically cant do at the moment (mainly due to my back)

I want to work, and the second I find a job I can do (only want to work part time at first), I will happily take it. But when every job that comes up on every job page I look at, I simply cant do, then I dont see how logically I dont fall into the category of needing extra help to find work.

I'm seeing my GP Monday (if I can get an appointment) and will discuss with her before doing anything.

IAmWales

OP, you have been asked several times, which descriptors do you feel that you fulfil?

It's understandable that you are frustrated, but at present you're going round in circles.

Alice_Holt

I've had a look at the links Alice posted above, unfortunately the one with the "take the esa test" wants money to do so.

No, you can access this without joining Benefits & Work. If you join as a member (c.£19pa) you have access to B & W's membership guides.

I get the sense that you haven't understood the importance of the ESA activities and descriptors in determining whether should receive ESA or JSA.
Just because you, or your GP think you are unable to work, does not mean ESA is payable.
This is determined by the WCA which looks solely at the ESA descriptors and regulations, which are precise and unfortunately rather prescriptive.
The test is not whether "they face additional barriers as a result of their illness or disability, and typically take longer to move into work.". The test is whether you achieve 15 points from the ESA descriptors.

You seem to be saying that difficulties with your back and knees are your main problem. This is why I asked you those questions at post 6, since these are the descriptors that may apply in your case. Here are those descriptors:

1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid is normally, or could reasonably be, worn or used.
1 (a) Cannot either (i) mobilise more than 50 meters on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion or (ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 meters within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion. 15 points.
1 (b) Cannot mount or descend two steps unaided by another person even with the support of a handrail. 9 points.
1 (c) Cannot either (i) mobilise more than 100 meters on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion or (ii) repeatedly mobilise 100 meters within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion. 9 points.
1 (d) Cannot either (i) mobilise more than 200 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion or (ii) repeatedly mobilise 200 meters within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion. 6 points.
1 (e) None of the above apply. 0 points.

2. Standing and sitting.
2 (a) Cannot move between one seated position and another seated position located next to one another without receiving physical assistance from another person. 15 points.
2 (b) Cannot, for the majority of the time, remain at a work station, either: (i) standing unassisted by another person (even if free to move around) or; (ii) sitting (even in an adjustable chair); or
(iii) a combination of (i) and (ii), for more than 30 minutes, before needing to move away in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion. 9 points.
2 (c) Cannot, for the majority of the time, remain at a work station, either: (i) standing unassisted by another person (even if free to move around) or; (ii) sitting (even in an adjustable chair); or
(iii) a combination of (i) and (ii), for more than an hour, before needing to move away in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion. 6 points.
2 (d) None of the above apply. 0 points

Note that activity 1 is called mobilising (not walking) as it includes the use of a manual wheelchair (therefore my question at post 6). This makes it more difficult for claimants with solely lower leg problems (foot, ankles, knees) to get to the required 15 points.
Also note that activity 2 can be satisfied by a "combination of sitting and standing", it does not just look solely at standing. The question as I have said before is whether you would need to move away from a work station within 60 minutes due to severe discomfort.

I'm afraid that the fact you " cant stand for more than 3 - 5 mins, cant kneel, cant squat etc, " is won't get you ESA. There is not an ESA descriptor for kneeling, squatting, or solely for being unable to stand more than 5 mins.
You are expected to do any type of work (such as a desk job), not just the work you may have done in the past.

Iwanttobefree

Alice_Holt wrote: »

I'm afraid that the fact you " cant stand for more than 3 - 5 mins, cant kneel, cant squat etc, " is won't get you ESA. There is not an ESA descriptor for kneeling, squatting, or solely for being unable to stand more than 5 mins.
You are expected to do any type of work (such as a desk job), not just the work you may have done in the past.

And I'm more than happy to do so.

But, looking at the jobs, I physically cant do the ones I've seen so far are all along the lines of

Warehouse Assistant
General Shop Assistant P/T -- F/T
Warehouse Picker and Packer
Kitchen Porter
Store Colleague
Staff Member / Catering Assistant (Full Time)
Waitress/Kitchen Assistant
Double Glazing Fitter
Production Operative
General Labourer
Trainee Butcher
Shop Floor Assistant

And all are impossible for me to do. I cant do something simple like shelf filling as I cant kneel etc or climb onto those elephant feet things to reach higher shelves.

I've also been told by my surgeon I mustn't do anything that requires lifting as my knees will wear out in no time

It's all very well saying I must take any job, but I can only take any job that I am physically capable of doing.

And I will trawl through the job pages again this afternoon and tomorrow etc. I'm going to try my hardest to find one before my JSA interview on Thursday.

All I'm saying, is that it really isn't as simple as taking the first job I see.

Alice_Holt

It seems that this has now moved away from advice on appealing an ESA decision.

When you see your JSA DWP adviser, you need to make clear your health conditions and ensure these are recognised in your claimant commitment, see:
http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/labour-market-conditions-and-jobseeker%E2%80%99s-allowance
and the paragraph headed "Claimants with health problems".

Without formal acknowledgement of your health conditions, you will be more exposed to the possibility of JSA sanctions.

NeilCr

As ever great advice from Alice

OP. I think you need to look at this as two different issues. One is (if you want to) to get a Mandatory Reconsideration in on the ESA. Look at the descriptors and see how you fit them. Get help from CAB if you can. Follow Alice's advice

The second is - as Alice says - to talk to your JSA adviser about the claimant commitment and what you can - and cannot do.

In my experience, anyway, if you don't concentrate on the MR/appeal and get distracted by other things such as the claimant commitment, a sense of injustice, the whole history etc then you don't get the form completed in the best possible way

TELLIT01

Iwanttobefree wrote: »

And I'm more than happy to do so.

But, looking at the jobs, I physically cant do the ones I've seen so far

All I'm saying, is that it really isn't as simple as taking the first job I see.

Therein lies the great 'weakness' of ESA. ESA looks to see what abilities you have rather than what disabilities, which is fine as far as it goes. The problem, as the OP has determined, is finding a job which is not precluded by the disabilities.
The extreme claim by the anti-ESA faction in the early days was that somebody who could only use one finger would be expected to take a job as a one fingered button pusher. A false statement of course, but does highlight the difference between being found fit for work, and being able to find work you are fit to do!

Iwanttobefree

Many thanks for all your advice, especially to Alice and Mutley. I really appreciate your time.

I might have given the wrong impression at some point, I wasn't thinking of appealing, as I said earlier, my CFS has cleared up (well tiredness aspect) and I've had my knees replaced.

The thread was really me just being astonished (as is everyone that knows me) that with all my problems, I scored zero points. I hadn't looked at the sites Alice linked to when I posted, I just felt that if I scored zero with all my problems, it was more an observation of shock, wondering how bad someone has to be to score points as to why I wrote my original post.

When I've told real life friends (all with jobs or retired after working all their lives) that I'm hoping to try and find some sort of part time work when my knees are better, without exception they have all said that I am mad, there's no way I can cope with my various ailments (my point being, these are people that see what I'm like over ling periods of time rather than a quick interview/gp appointment etc).

But I really really want to work, living off £5k a year in 2016 - 2017 when I was earning around 40K in 1997, well I'd have to be pretty insane to chose to do this. Since my CFS has been cured, my whole aim is to start work, starting part time and seeing how it goes.

But the back was an unexpected thing.

Today I saw my GP for the results of my total spine MRI. She said there were abnormalities, especially in the top (where I get the back of head headaches lasting for 2 or 3 days) and she is referring me to a neurologist for further tests as she said something is not right, my knees should not be giving way like they are etc.

I told her I had been taken off ESA and had an interview with the job centre on Thursday, and that I am happy to work, however, spending the weekend poring over jobs, I didn't find one I could comfortably do.

She replied words along the lines of: I'm in a tough situation as due to my CFS being cured, technically I am fit enough to work, but the problem I'm going to have is that while I am fit enough on paper to get a job, with my health problems, joint problems, back problems etc, the amount of jobs I'm going to be actually capable of doing are going to be extremely small. Not only that, when people start having problems like I am with my back, they tend to get worse over time not better.

She said she can write a letter to the job centre if I want, but try talking to them first, as it has to be done privately and costs something like £20.

Shes also trying different painkillers, but if these don't work or I react to them etc, she's going to work out the best way of change my anti depressants to ones that also act as a really good pain killer.

So that is where I am at.

If I looked tomorrow morning and saw a job I could do, I would phone them up straight away (and I hope that happens)

Of course, they all ask for a CV, mine hasn't been updated for 20 years. I've also got to be honest and say I cant stand for long periods, cant handle walking down stairs and cant do any lifting etc.

And I suspect if 20 people go for a job, one is 53, hasn't worked for 20 years and still has problems with various things, chances of them getting that job are pretty low.

Anyway CV advice and DMP advice I will ask for elsewhere on here.

Teddysmum, I appreciate the suggestion, but one of the things from my CFS that is still with me, is any stress physically exhausts me. IT is vert stressful

GlasweJen

Why on earth would you list a bunch of activities you can't do on your CV? If the job centre see you doing that you could end up sanctioned for intentionally messing up job applications.

You disclose disability either when you've had a job offer or on occupational health forms that aren't seen by interviewers.