Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

Thrugelmir

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Is it?

Your side have complained for 40 years. Now it's our turn.

My side? What's my side? I don't complain either. Just get on with life. As the only certainty in life is uncertainty. Nothing lasts forever. My personal view has changed in more recent times.

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Really is time to move on. On a personal level perhaps you need to decide where your loyalties lie.

Yes we do have to move on. But that does not mean that one has to accept that it is in the UK's best interest to leave. Neither does it mean that everything that is done to enact the result of the people's decision is unquestionably right.

“Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.”
― Leo Tolstoy,

A_Medium_Size_Jock

Rusty_Shackleton wrote: »

Typical brexiter, in the time it's taken to post about that on one thread to the posting it here, you've managed to shake £10 billion off the acceptable bill or perhaps the public are just as consistent as always.

Typical remainer, unable to interpret statistics, facts or figures - unless of course they they suit an agenda of negativity.

BobQ wrote: »

Yes we do have to move on. But that does not mean that one has to accept that it is in the UK's best interest to leave. Neither does it mean that everything that is done to enact the result of the people's decision is unquestionably right.

Conversely neither does it mean that one must to deny that it is in the UK's best interests to leave; nor does it automatically make everything that is done wrong.

Britain in 'good position' in Brexit talks - May's spokeswoman

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-may-idUKKCN1B913P?il=0

UK taking the initiative in Brexit talks, ‘no deal better than bad deal’, says May

https://www.ft.com/content/0930d378-6a2a-3923-8a23-f694de57af59

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

Yes we do have to move on. But that does not mean that one has to accept that it is in the UK's best interest to leave. Neither does it mean that everything that is done to enact the result of the people's decision is unquestionably right.

One still needs to focus and channel energies in a positive manner. For the average Briton being in or out makes little difference to their daily lives. No one complained about the loss of quality jobs (technically skilled) or complete industries due to globalisation in the past 2 decades. More interested in how cheap something can be bought for. Than protecting the next future generations inheritance. Then expecting the Government of the day to magically find an answer to rebalancing the economy. Skills once lost are hard to rebuild. Shifting boxes is no substitute for added value manufacturing.

BobQ

Originally Posted by BobQ
Yes we do have to move on. But that does not mean that one has to accept that it is in the UK's best interest to leave. Neither does it mean that everything that is done to enact the result of the people's decision is unquestionably right.

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

Conversely neither does it mean that one must to deny that it is in the UK's best interests to leave; nor does it automatically make everything that is done wrong.

What is in the UK's best interest and what is wrong is a matter of opinion. You can believe leaving is in the UK's interest and that the majority were right if you wish.

I am just saying that accepting the outcome of a vote does not mean that I have to change my opinion that it was the wrong decision and is not in the best interests of the UK. There is a view among some of those who voted leave that remain voters must embrace the idea. The fact is that the pro-leave community is coalition of ideas in the public and even in the Cabinet.

As we march down the road these ideas are coalescing around some documents that are at best a compromise that papers over the cracks. Hopefully, there will be goodwill on both sides and a mutually beneficial agreement emerges. But many on the leave side will not accept those compromises.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

One still needs to focus and channel energies in a positive manner. For the average Briton being in or out makes little difference to their daily lives. No one complained about the loss of quality jobs (technically skilled) or complete industries due to globalisation in the past 2 decades. More interested in how cheap something can be bought for. Than protecting the next future generations inheritance. Then expecting the Government of the day to magically find an answer to rebalancing the economy. Skills once lost are hard to rebuild. Shifting boxes is no substitute for added value manufacturing.

Very true and it may well be that those who post on this forum are "interested " in the issues while most people (as you say) are getting on with their lives. My fear is that Brexit has created a divided nation (it would have been the same if Remain had won by a small margin) which will eventually react to events.

Skill shortages never mattered when the economy was apparently thriving. That could change when they see high levels of immigration continuing or they see industry moving to where there is skilled labour.

The effects of a lower pound will only matter to the people getting on with their lives when they see that they have to cut back on their foreign holidays, eating out and their food and clothes get more expensive.

It does not matter to them now, but eventually the wave of victory that will be very beneficial for some will be viewed by others as not having delivered. Brexit was a symbol of solving people's problems and in the next few years they will see it has not cured their problems. If the Government can prevent this view emerging then they will have done well

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

My fear is that Brexit has created a divided nation (it would have been the same if Remain had won by a small margin) which will eventually react to events.

The EU in it's current form is creating unrest and division. Totally the reverse of the post war original concept. Not everyone wishes to lose their identity and their culture. In order to become a generic European. Travel any where in the world, and you'll find that people end up living in enclaves. With like minded people. Integration is not as simple as allowing free movement of people. This in itself can be extremely unsettling. People still yearn for home. Even generations later.

posh*spice

Thrugelmir wrote: »

One still needs to focus and channel energies in a positive manner. For the average Briton being in or out makes little difference to their daily lives. No one complained about the loss of quality jobs (technically skilled) or complete industries due to globalisation in the past 2 decades. More interested in how cheap something can be bought for. Than protecting the next future generations inheritance. Then expecting the Government of the day to magically find an answer to rebalancing the economy. Skills once lost are hard to rebuild. Shifting boxes is no substitute for added value manufacturing.

True.

Additionally, when Labour opened the country up to mass migration and multiculturalism without ever putting it in a manifesto, at least for for a while, nobody said a thing.

buglawton

BobQ wrote: »

...The effects of a lower pound will only matter to the people getting on with their lives when they see that they have to cut back on their foreign holidays, eating out and their food and clothes get more expensive....

The £ has held quite steady against the $. It's the € that's riding high internationally atm. Fortunately we can substitute a lot of EU products for ones priced in $ quite quickly. Call it practice for a firm & proper Brexit. On the Agricultural side we'd need a longer run of high € to encourage more investment and productivity back into UK farming. But it could happen.

BobQ

buglawton wrote: »

The £ has held quite steady against the $. It's the € that's riding high internationally atm. Fortunately we can substitute a lot of EU products for ones priced in $ quite quickly. Call it practice for a firm & proper Brexit. On the Agricultural side we'd need a longer run of high € to encourage more investment and productivity back into UK farming. But it could happen.

It could but the proverbial man in the street will judge success by more mundane things like how much his holiday costs

When you say its the Euro that is riding high and the £ is steady please name a "major" currency that £1 would buy more of today compared with 3 years ago when the first stirrings of a referendum emerged? Steady yes but over weeks not years.But I agree that if food gets cheaper then that will tick a success box.

Low productivity and skill shortages, combined with people's obsession with borrowing what they do not have will be the undoing of us if we are not careful. Of course the one thing that will unite us is probably the likes of Barnier and Juncker always saying no to reasonable proposals.

Sapphire

BobQ wrote: »

Low productivity and skill shortages, combined with people's obsession with borrowing what they do not have will be the undoing of us if we are not careful. Of course the one thing that will unite us is probably the likes of Barnier and Juncker always saying no to reasonable proposals.

Yes. Agree with both these sentiments. There is far too much borrowing by both individuals and governments. Continued massive quantitative easing in some places is also likely to cause huge damage – it cannot be continued indefinitely, as far as I'm aware.

Completely agree with the second sentence. :cool: