Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

kabayiri

Arklight wrote: »

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Anyway, yes, considering that Brexit has fairly effectively sliced the UK into two, and the Remain side would like to set the Leave people adrift in the Atlantic somewhere, its possibly safe to assume the Europeans feel much the same.

It didn't really did it.

It just exposed fault lines which were already there.

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

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I don't expect the EU to remain in it's current form now that the UK is leaving. As I've said on many occasions the core of the EU has long term goals. These can only be achieved by complete fiscal integration. The political overtones of the project are all very clear to see as well.

The Brexit referendum never really focused on the long term goals for the EU.

Was this an opportunity missed, or were they genuinely worried that ordinary UK voters wouldn't buy into these goals?

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

You could argue that people voted in pure self interest, rather than any sense of national collective interest, and that might be valid.

Individuals voting in "self interest" though create the collective view. As reflects the mood of the people actually living here. Not those in Gibraltar or expats spread across Europe. Or those that want Scottish independence. All those ordinary people that want a better way of life for themselves and their families.

Arklight

kabayiri wrote: »

It didn't really did it.

It just exposed fault lines which were already there.

In order to support a team, you have to have a team to support. Before the disaster of Cameron's referendum there were people with differing opinions on an issue that wasn't discussed much in the real world, UKIP, who had the grand total of one MP, and the far right.

The only positive thing to come out of this is that Theresa May called her last election asking for a mandate for Brexit and the ghastly woman didn't get it. Or indeed a mandate to be in government at all. Something that appears to have eluded her for the timebeing...

kabayiri

Arklight wrote: »

In order to support a team, you have to have a team to support. Before the disaster of Cameron's referendum there were people with differing opinions on an issue that wasn't discussed much in the real world, UKIP, who had the grand total of one MP, and the far right.
...

You could be dissatisfied with the teams available to support though?

Maybe, the reality of living in modern day UK has moved on, and the political parties haven't really.

It did seem like a disconnect between voters and parliament.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

The Brexit referendum never really focused on the long term goals for the EU.

Was this an opportunity missed, or were they genuinely worried that ordinary UK voters wouldn't buy into these goals?

The problem is how do you bring the member states that will create the inner core into line. Everybody wants the benefits of membership . But still wants to play by their own rules. From ownership of companies, to Corporation tax, refugees, the banking system, budget deficits. There's huge disagreement and bending of the rules. The UK being one of the few that has played by the rules.

Arklight

kabayiri wrote: »

The Brexit referendum never really focused on the long term goals for the EU.

Was this an opportunity missed, or were they genuinely worried that ordinary UK voters wouldn't buy into these goals?

The objectives of the EU are very clearly laid out, starting with the Treaty of Rome. As are all the UK's many opt outs.

The Brexit referendum was almost entirely taken up with the right wing press spewing poisonous scaremongering lies about Europe and foreigners from start to finish. Disgraceful images of refugees in Turkey, escaping a Syrian war with the clear intimation that they were in the UK under the strapline 'Breaking Point'.

Then there were the economic lies, £350 million a week for the NHS, a figure that was completely fabricated. There will be nothing but real terms cuts for the NHS.

It's pretty difficult for the truth to percolate through that. Unless of course, Brexit supporters had wanted to spend the ten minutes Googling 'what is the EU?' before the referendum rather than after it, like they eventually did.

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

I think there is too much blame being apportioned towards ordinary voters. They had a value judgement to make; they turned out in large numbers and made their decision.

Agreed. It's not the fault of the voters that they made decisions based on terrible information.

kabayiri wrote: »

Don't you think there is a human cost for people who felt impacted by mass migration, which caused them to vote to leave?

How much of that is an impact, based on actual experience, or perceived based on, say, biased media?

We already know from surveys that many people felt immigration was about 7 times higher that it really want, and that the Leave side were on average lower educated (and presumably less likely to do the research themselves).

I don't doubt that many Brexiteers genuinely felt there was an immigration problem and that Brexit was the way to address it. However, I'm not convinced that (a) that's actually the reality or (b) that Brexit will make anything better for them.

TrickyTree83

Arklight wrote: »

The objectives of the EU are very clearly laid out, starting with the Treaty of Rome. As are all the UK's many opt outs.

The Brexit referendum was almost entirely taken up with the right wing press spewing poisonous scaremongering lies about Europe and foreigners from start to finish. Disgraceful images of refugees in Turkey, escaping a Syrian war with the clear intimation that they were in the UK under the strapline 'Breaking Point'.

Then there were the economic lies, £350 million a week for the NHS, a figure that was completely fabricated. There will be nothing but real terms cuts for the NHS.

It's pretty difficult for the truth to percolate through that. Unless of course, Brexit supporters had wanted to spend the ten minutes Googling 'what is the EU?' before the referendum rather than after it, like they eventually did.

So many lies, so many...

Fella

Some selective memories on here. The buildup to the EU referendum was dominated across all platforms by pro-remain commentary. TV, Press, and about 99% of Social Media was nothing but warnings of disaster and accusations of closet racism.

Of course that's changed now, except it hasn't.