Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

Thrugelmir

Private_Church wrote: »

Many of the affluent middle class Londoners are leaving London and its no wonder why, if its such a great place to live why do so many leave?.

As they have done for many decades. Selling a relatively small expensive London abode. Then buying a detached property in the country. Close to a mainline railway station. Quality of life being so much better.

My humble abode would cost 3 times the price if it was in London. Sheer madness.

buglawton

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

London has however been exposed to migration for centuries, with what we might now call mass migration certainly as far back as the 16th Century and the formation of the Empire.
Rural Lincolnshire (together with many other places) methinks has not.

Is it not then only natural that somewhere like London with a long history of diverse nationalities and cultures would be more accepting of further immigration than parts of the country that had previously had little (or even no) experience of such a sudden influx?

https://www.kgs-tornesch.de/dokumente/upload/London%20Texte%20Un/12C/Migration%20-%2012C.pdf

Amazing to think then that the rural town of Boston, Lincolnshire, has highest immigration statistic, at 10%, in the UK (2012 figure, 2017 citation needed).
A local said that the maternity unit there was saved by it's 40% immigrant usage.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/dec/11/census-boston-eastern-european-immigration

Times they are a-changing

Fella

buglawton wrote: »

A local said that the maternity unit there was saved by it's 40% immigrant usage.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/dec/11/census-boston-eastern-european-immigration

If you build it, they will come.

vivatifosi

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

London has however been exposed to migration for centuries, with what we might now call mass migration certainly as far back as the 16th Century and the formation of the Empire.
Rural Lincolnshire (together with many other places) methinks has not.

Is it not then only natural that somewhere like London with a long history of diverse nationalities and cultures would be more accepting of further immigration than parts of the country that had previously had little (or even no) experience of such a sudden influx?

https://www.kgs-tornesch.de/dokumente/upload/London%20Texte%20Un/12C/Migration%20-%2012C.pdf

I accept that immigration is higher now, but I would be interested to know how much there was historically. Part of my family was from Norfolk, and I have Flemish, Dutch and Scandinavian heritage in that part of my tree. Probably not uncommon in seafaring towns trading across the North Sea.

Apparently it's not uncommon for people tracing their family history of the west coast, from Cornwall to Scotland, to have some Irish DNA in their ancestor profile, so it would be logical to find similar up the east coast.

BobQ

kabayiri wrote: »

A referendum vote isn't really a vote directed towards other people though is it?

You can not know what the voting intentions are of the person in the next booth to you, never mind across the country. Even the pollsters misjudged things.

You could argue that people voted in pure self interest, rather than any sense of national collective interest, and that might be valid.

I think there is too much blame being apportioned towards ordinary voters. They had a value judgement to make; they turned out in large numbers and made their decision.

This is partly true but those in the EU are more likely to speak English than we are to speak their first language. I know many people living in the EU who were shocked by the result and look at the British press and forums like these and see nasty comments about the EU, foreigners, arrogance and the like. Add to that the nationalist views in those countries and there is certainly little sympathy for us.

BobQ

A_Medium_Size_Jock wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/11/remain-voters-now-back-taking-control-borders-leaving-ecj-paying/

Oh dear, I hope you were not one of those castigating JK Rowling?

You are quoting false information (in good faith!)

The survey was of just over 3000 people not 20000. The 3000 made 20000 choices in the survey.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.uyjGAApQ#.dczV559g

Interesting survey though:)

Thrugelmir

vivatifosi wrote: »

I accept that immigration is higher now, but I would be interested to know how much there was historically.

On my mothers side my great grandmother was French and on my fathers side my grandfather was German. We know that he came to the UK due to the depression that followed WW1.

AMO

I think that regardless of whether people are Brexiteers or not, the problem we faced was that much of Britain wanted to have a level of control on the freedom of movement.

The EU objected that the UK could not pick and choose.

But, if the EU played the hard line when the currency issue was the topic, many remainers would no longer be remainers.

In essence, if EU now played hardball and asked us to be part of the Euro currency, at least half the remainers would think differently.

Thrugelmir

AMO wrote: »

In essence, if EU now played hardball and asked us to be part of the Euro currency, at least half the remainers would think differently.

Given the likely direction of the Eurozone or inner core of the EU. Would be a requirement were the UK wish to renter at a later point in time.

gfplux

Filo25 wrote: »

On the other hand the fact that we had high non-EU immigration (fully controlled by the UK government) even while we were seeing high levels of EU immigration, implies that we had a high demand for immigration in the job market anyway.

Plus we had tools available to us to control EU immigration (immigrants should be self supporting after 3 months) we just chose not to use them.

On a simplistic level we could have stayed within the EU and more than halved immigration, we just chose not to even when we had that "control" ourselves, still its an easier argument for many just to blame the EU.

Equally I will admit that high levels of immigration bring challenges and those challenges are maybe more focused on certain groups than others but it also brings significant benefits in terms of dealing with the issues we face due to skills/labour shortages and an aging population.

High levels of both non EU and EU immigrants and the effects on society were ignored by Government because "they" only saw the benefits to the economy.
There was a disconnect between the Government and those effected by immigration. This was a failing of Government which the referendum gave people the opportunity to blame the EU.
Suddenly "the will of the people" is important to Government despite or because "the people" blamed the EU rather than the Government.
The economic consequences of Britain leaving the EU and starting after over 40 years to carve a new position in the world would be laughable if it were not so dangerous and unpredictable.