Brexit, The Economy and House Prices (Part 2)

cogito

whatmichaelsays wrote: »

Two things to this story.

Firstly, the BBC is not Liam Fox's PR agency. It has no obligation to publish the angle that he wants and is well within its rights to give due credence to both sides of the argument.

Of course the BBC should present both sides of the argument. The problem is that it doesn't. Anyone who saw the wailing and gnashing of teeth from BBC commentators on referendum night can be in no doubt about the BBC's stance. Nor can anyone who saw the unalloyed joy on the faces of the same commentators when the results of the exit poll on election night be in any doubt about it either.

The BBC's stance with the honourable exception of Andrew Neil is overwhelmingly pro-remain. If the BBC wants to be the antithesis of Fox News or Breitbart, it shouldn't be doing it with taxpayers' money.

whatmichaelsays

cogito wrote: »

Of course the BBC should present both sides of the argument. The problem is that it doesn't. Anyone who saw the wailing and gnashing of teeth from BBC commentators on referendum night can be in no doubt about the BBC's stance. Nor can anyone who saw the unalloyed joy on the faces of the same commentators when the results of the exit poll on election night be in any doubt about it either.

The BBC's stance with the honourable exception of Andrew Neil is overwhelmingly pro-remain. If the BBC wants to be the antithesis of Fox News or Breitbart, it shouldn't be doing it with taxpayers' money.

This is where we get into subjective intepretations. I personally don't see the BBC as having a bias, but then my barometer is usually pretty centrist. Let's be honest, lots of Mail links get posted in this forum and, if that's your usual 'zero point', you'd struggle to find a publication further to the right than that.

Saying that something has occurred "despite Brexit" isn't showing a hostility to Brexit in my opinion. It's merely putting the issue into context of pre-Brexit predictions, or expectations that it would be reasonable for the BBC to presume that the audience may have.

I also don't recalled seeing joy on the faces of the BBC commentators after the exit poll. If anything, the reaction was one of surprise.

A_Medium_Size_Jock

A commentary piece in - of all places - the Independent suggesting reasons "Why we need to stop romanticising the idea of Europe":

I don’t think many even in “core” Europe are really convinced by the ramshackle outfit we’ve got now, and really believe it will be around in another 60 years. It is often remarked that the EU is a “unique experiment” in international integration, which it certainly is. Trouble is, for all its economic achievements, and some flops, it has failed to earn much widespread loyalty or affection. Ask a Greek.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/europe-brexit-nation-state-commonwealth-a7855031.html

A_Medium_Size_Jock

whatmichaelsays wrote: »

This is where we get into subjective intepretations. I personally don't see the BBC as having a bias, but then my barometer is usually pretty centrist. Let's be honest, lots of Mail links get posted in this forum and, if that's your usual 'zero point', you'd struggle to find a publication further to the right than that.

Saying that something has occurred "despite Brexit" isn't showing a hostility to Brexit in my opinion. It's merely putting the issue into context of pre-Brexit predictions, or expectations that it would be reasonable for the BBC to presume that the audience may have.

I also don't recalled seeing joy on the faces of the BBC commentators after the exit poll. If anything, the reaction was one of surprise.

It is difficult to be centrist when so much of the media is so patently obviously pro-EU though, hence why a few like myself on here post so much in an attempt to provide at least some balance.

I noted your earlier comment on the Mail.
But this was the only source I could find without hunting and I CBA on a Sunday; it comes from what I feel sure you will have similar emotions about, namely the Daily Express. In this case purely because it includes a video so that you may see for yourself.

TORY MP Bernard Jenkin blasted a BBC presenter over Brexit saying his “emotive language” was revealing the broadcaster’s bias.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/831446/Brexit-eu-uk-Bernard-Jenkin-bbc-news-europe-brussels-european-union-Good-Morning-Scotland

setmefree2

The truth is the BBC really is biased about Brexit - so if you are someone, like me, who is just looking for facts about what is "actually" going on - you won't find them on the BBC (with the exception of Andrew Neil's progs)

Look at what happened last week with Liam Fox at the WTO in Geneva - it wasn't covered by the BBC - you wouldn't have even known he was there. It was however covered by Sky.

If you just get your news from the BBC you will be ill-informed. And you will only get the Remoaner view/spin.

Let's be honest, the BBC is full of private educated over paid white Liberal elites.

setmefree2

And on that note

'Time for pragmatism'

The head of the powerful trade body representing German car manufacturers has told the BBC there will be a threat to jobs and investment in Britain if the UK leaves both the single market and the customs union.
Matthias Wissman, whose members include Volkswagen, BMW and Porsche, said his preferred option was for the UK to adopt a Norwegian-style membership of the European Economic Area but, failing that, a lengthy transitional period was a bare minimum.
"You need a transition period," he told Radio 4's The World This Weekend. "We hope that on the British side that gets deeper and deeper into the intellectual capabilities of those who decide."
Urging British politicians to put pragmatism ahead of ideology, he said a tariff-free trade deal with the EU was possible but only if "the UK understands what the preconditions are".
"Any kind of unwise, dramatic changes would have an effect on investment and jobs in the automotive industry. Hard Brexit would mean barriers, control of goods."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40697322

Mr Wissman it'll only be like that if that is what the EU want - that's not what we want.

kabayiri

setmefree2 wrote: »

And on that note

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40697322

Mr Wissman it'll only be like that if that is what the EU want - that's not what we want.

I reckon Germany will face new challenges from China in addition to South Korea, as we all will, when it comes to cars.

Would British attitudes to Chinese made cars change if they were priced at half the retail of a VW Golf?

Already, £20K for a compact German car is looking out of reach of many in the UK as low wage growth bites.

gfplux

cogito wrote: »

Brexit does not have to be damaging to either the UK or the EU. It's really up to the two parties to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement. The UK is leaving the EU and that is a fact that the EU do not seem to have come to terms with.

When it comes to negotiating an agreement, the big problem is that Barmier is not negotiating at all - his brief is to act in accordance with the position papers and has no authority to stray from that. He has 27 different countries to deal with and they all have positions (on issues such as ECJ jurisdiction, for example) which are obviously beneficial to them and would have to be consulted before he can move. Dealing with these 27 countries and a handful of regional parliaments is like herding cats as the Canadians recently found out.

On the issue of ECJ jurisdiction, for example, the UK has offered a neutral ombudsman to adjudicate on cases involving rights of EU citizens in the UK. Now most reasonable people would see that the UK has made a move towards the EU and most reasonable people would think that this is a good compromise. Not so the EU which has boxed itself into a corner with its position paper.

I would like to think that other countries are having a quiet word behind the scenes with EU members and pointing out that any failure to reach an agreement may very well have knock on effects beyond Europe and encouraging the EU to come down off its high horse.

Firstly Brexit will damage both the EU and Britain just as a strong group is less strong with one less large member and that member no longer being part of the group. The negotiations are separate from this very simple fact of life.

Secondly, Barnier has a very simple task. Just like a hare unleashed he has his brief and negotiates within it. However the British position flaps like the wind, just because it has no fixed position. Gove etc give an interview and just like a tennis match the British public have to swivel their necks to look at the "NEW" position of their country.

Thirdly, The ECJ a red line for both sides. HOW DO YOU KNOW the UK has offered a "neutral ombudsman" please tell me how you know that. Perhaps it was in the newspapers or in a speech by one of the candidates jostling to be the next Prime Minister?

Fourthly I agree many of the 27 are saying !!!!!! is the British position. Should we watch the Sunday political programmes on British Television to find out, except who of these British talking heads do we believe! And Barnier is saying "I don't have the faintest idea"

gfplux

setmefree2 wrote: »

The truth is the BBC really is biased about Brexit - so if you are someone, like me, who is just looking for facts about what is "actually" going on - you won't find them on the BBC (with the exception of Andrew Neil's progs)

Look at what happened last week with Liam Fox at the WTO in Geneva - it wasn't covered by the BBC - you wouldn't have even known he was there. It was however covered by Sky.

If you just get your news from the BBC you will be ill-informed. And you will only get the Remoaner view/spin.

Let's be honest, the BBC is full of private educated over paid white Liberal elites.

Not picking a fight,
but in the last 48hours I listened to 20 minutes of Fox on a "BBC Today" podcast talking of his visit to Geneva and about his impending visit to America. It was not an agressive interview he was free to talk freely about how cloths and shoes will be cheaper (by 20%) after Brexit and that wine would also cost less. In fact he said there would be a "leap" in people standard of living immediately after Brexit.
Not sure he said leap it could have been jump.

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

I reckon Germany will face new challenges from China in addition to South Korea, as we all will, when it comes to cars.

Would British attitudes to Chinese made cars change if they were priced at half the retail of a VW Golf?

Already, £20K for a compact German car is looking out of reach of many in the UK as low wage growth bites.

BMW already produce in Chine. There are dozens of story's here is just one link.
http://europe.autonews.com/article/20170519/ANE/170519763/bmw-to-boost-china-production-capacity

"FRANKFURT -- BMW said its annual production capacity in China will reach 450,000 vehicles, 144,274 vehicles more than last year's output, once an investment plan to upgrade its local factories is completed.

BMW produces cars at two plants in Shenyang, China, and has invested 1 billion euros to adapt production lines for newer models over the past three years, the automaker said in a statement Friday.
At its factory in Shenyang's Dadong district, BMW now produces a long-wheelbase version of the 5-series sedan and is preparing to build the X3 SUV at a factory, which is run by its joint venture partner BMW Brilliance Automotive.
BMW is now remodeling the a section of the Dadong plant to increase the factory's flexibility, while another plant in Shenyang's Tiexi district builds a long-wheelbase version of the X1 SUV, a 2 series, a long-wheelbase 3 series and a 1-series sedan."