ESA fraud ?

Swadez

My situation is complex but I will try and explain as well as I can so that you can advice me.

I'm physically disabled and require round the clock care. Apart from being mentally sound I'm unable to do anything else including washing, cooking, feeding or even sitting or laying down.

My partner has been my carer for over 13 years and still is. However, we are no longer 'living together' as partners. If you know what I mean. We have no more a sexual relationship and both are involved with other people. As she is my carer, she continues to live with me for that reason. She still receives Care Allowance.

She has been, and still is, on my ESA claim. That's Employment Support Allowance.

Beginning of this year she started wanting to move out and this worried me as I feared I would lose the stable and reliable care from her. I offered to employ her properly, with wage slips etc, funded directly through my Disability Living Allowance. It wasn't enough but as she was my carer she probably deserved it anyway. We agreed on 2 hours per day at £7.50 per hour. Again, nothing extravagant but it was enough for her to stay with me for my care.

This arrangement began end of January and I duly rung up ESA and informed them that my partner and I were no longer together and that I wanted her to be removed from my application. They said as she was still living at the property then it would be difficult. However, I was told they would look into it and we may get a visit from someone. We haven't as of yet.

I then rang them a further two times with the same information but nothing was done. I also wrote to them but no reply. I wrote in May so it may still be going through the system.

End of April I applied for a Budgeting Loan and I put down that I had a partner. As I was still receiving her ESA then I thought I had to.

I have been paying her from my DLA every 4 weeks since.

Yesterday, I received a letter from some fraud investigator asking me, as her employer, about how many hours she was working for me and for how long including pay rates. No mention that I was her partner.

I'm now confused as to what is going on. Firstly, I did inform them yet they continued to pay ESA. But I believe the rule is that she is allowed to work 14 hours we week anyway.

Could I be done for benefit fraud? It's not like she was working elsewhere. I was paying her from my DLA.

The most I can think of is that they might say that they overpaid ESA. Which is not my fault as I had repeatedly informed them.

Diary

The problem arose when you told the DWP you were still together as partners at the end of April. You also write like you're still a couple even on here. Once you decided she was no longer your girlfriend you really should have stuck to that story. You really will need to wait and see what happens.

As you say you are no longer together you must have evidence of this, taking her off bills, separate shopping receipts etc.

The fact you told DWP you were no longer together is largely irrelevant here as you nèded to then follow that through.

To me personally it sounds like they're investigating her claim for carers allowance not yours particularly.

TELLIT01

The people who would be looking into you living in the same property but no longer being a couple, are the same people who investigate potential frauds. It's possible that the letter has been generated as a result of your initial contact with ESA. The letter with 'fraud' in the title scares the **** out of most people, particularly those who haven't done anything wrong.
If she was still your partner she would be able to work up to 24 hours per week but her income would be taken into account against your benefit. You need to chase ESA again to get what is a somewhat complicated situation resolved.
Former couples still living in the same property is far from unusual these days so I don't understand why the person you spoke to said it would be difficult. The process is straightforward. Somebody from Compliance / Fraud contacts both parties and interviews both, generally separately. They also visit the home to view the setup. For example, are there separate bedrooms etc and make a determination based on the facts.

PHILANTHROPIST

I would anticipate that if you are honest then all may well be fine.

As others have said there appear to be some inconsistencies in your story, but for the main part, and repeatedly, re ESA you appear to have been advising the DWP correctly. It may well be all put down to some confusion on your part, however, as you are "mentally sound" then your condition would not have led to any such confusion. In the worst case in order for you, and/or your carer / de facto "partner, to be charged with fraud the DWP will have to prove that you did so beyond reasonable doubt. Based on what you say that may prove to be very difficult, but as is often the case on a forum such as this we do not know all the facts and as a result any guidance given by me or other members may well be wrong. In reality members on here try to offer guidance and not (legal) advice per se.

If you need formal professional help you may wish to go to a local law centre who may offer some free advice or CAB - if you can get a timely appointment - who often have access to limited pro bono legal input.

Best of luck.

dippy3103

So is she still on your ESA claim?
Does she get Carers Allowance for you?

w06

Part of the problem will be that that £105 (7*2*7.50) wasn't counted as house hold income when it was DLA, but once you've paid it to your ex (assuming you've paid officially) it does then become income that's counted.

TELLIT01

w06 wrote: »

Part of the problem will be that that £105 (7*2*7.50) wasn't counted as house hold income when it was DLA, but once you've paid it to your ex (assuming you've paid officially) it does then become income that's counted.

That's why I said they need to speak to the relevant people at DWP to clarify things. It makes no sense that it would be OK to pass on DLA money to a carer on an informal basis, but start doing that as 'wages' and it affects benefit entitlement. The fact that it makes no sense doesn't mean it wouldn't be treated that way.

tomtom256

If she isn't your partner and hasn't been for sometime, then you have been receiving couple rate of ESA and not single rate for that whole period. i.e. more money then you are entitled to.

You then have the fact she is getting carers allowance for you whilst being paid to be your carer. Paid carers cannot claim carers allowance.

Without the reasoning behind the letter from FES it's hard to say just what they are looking at.

If it is addressed to you and not your ex then it is you they are investigating.

w06

It depends whether that £105 is within one or two households too though. I reads as though it's being argued both ways at the same time

Mojisola

tomtom256 wrote: »

Paid carers cannot claim carers allowance.

Do you have a link for that?

You can get CA and still earn over £100 a week. As long as the carer cares for 35 hours (CA) plus the hours they are paid for, what's the problem?

dippy3103

tomtom256 wrote: »

If she isn't your partner and hasn't been for sometime, then you have been receiving couple rate of ESA and not single rate for that whole period. i.e. more money then you are entitled to.

You then have the fact she is getting carers allowance for you whilst being paid to be your carer. Paid carers cannot claim carers allowance.

Without the reasoning behind the letter from FES it's hard to say just what they are looking at.

If it is addressed to you and not your ex then it is you they are investigating.

Sounds to me as if it's written to the OP as an employer.