Vacuum cleaners to be further enfeebled from Sept 2017

springdreams

coffeehound wrote: »

Brexit will come too late to avoid this



So buy a more powerful vacuum cleaner soon, or face the murky black market in illicit hoovers after September.

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I highly suspect that other brands of vacuum cleaners will be affected too, not just Hoover .....

WobblyDog

Of course, in the winter, the extra power is doing useful work by heating the house.

Perhaps the manufacturers can get around the legislation by launching a range of powerful fan heaters that just happen to be supplied with a set of hoses and brushes.

coffeehound

martinsurrey wrote: »

and a 1600W hoover is mainly generating heat (through inefficient motor, inefficient fan design, inefficient filter system, inefficient air intake design) , a small percentage of its power is actually becoming suction.

So you concede that you were wrong to say

the large 1600W hoover isnt sitting there balancing its motor power and giving it extra welly when it needs it...

Probably a good idea not to throw around accusations that other people don't know what they're talking about

As to inefficient this and inefficient that, the likes of Miele and Dyson have been developing cleaners for many many years. I think they know how to make an efficient fan or filter by now. Perhaps enough efficiencies can be found to make up for the shortfall in electrical power available. Maybe motors themselves can be made more efficient too, but it's telling that after all these years of motor development, Dyson still use higher power motors in their fullsize models. Perhaps they have a new breakthrough waiting in the wings for September, who knows. Either way, you know who will ultimately foot the bill for all the necessary redesigns.

Norman_Castle wrote: »

I expect some vacuums have oversized motors so they can be sold as 2000 watts of POWER to people who believe higher electrical consumption equals a better vacuum. Its notable that the manufacturers of the most popular vacuums, Numatic, Miele, Dyson don't feel the need to exaggerate the ability of their vacuums with oversize motors.

Miele had 2.3 kW domestic vacuums until the 2014 cull!

Jackmydad

I wonder if any work has been done to equate the amount of suck on various machines with the amount of power used.
I've got a feeling that might well be an eye opener. i'll bet the manufacturers wouldn't like it.
As you say though Coffeehound. At the end of the day we pay for any redesigns.

martinsurrey

coffeehound wrote: »

So you concede that you were wrong to say



Probably a good idea not to throw around accusations that other people don't know what they're talking about

As to inefficient this and inefficient that, the likes of Miele and Dyson have been developing cleaners for many many years. I think they know how to make an efficient fan or filter by now.

not at all, I was right, and am still right, the large hoover is on 100% power 100% of the time, and all of the time 80% of the energy it is using is being turned to heat, not suction, and there is no way it changes that balance, it is inefficient 100% of the time.

Dyson dc55

Dysons biggest are around 700W... they have no need to improve.

and yes mielle have been developing motors for a while, which is why their best are under 800W

miele

so you are proving my point, good well designed brands are already under the limits, this will only effect the large brands that still sell on the sticker number, which is a good thing.

david1951

Should probably be noted that the UK government supported the rules (so we are likely to keep them upon Brexit), and they are based on scientific evidence.

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/tidying-up-the-facts-on-eu-vacuum-cleaner-rules/

As others have noted you can buy a perfectly good vacuum cleaner now that uses less than 900W.

Icecannon

And we pay billions a year for this!

I fail to see why some people want to stay in the EU so badly, when most of what they do is this type of thing, the good aspects such as security etc you don't have to accept the rest to collaborate on that.

Like for like give me the higher wattage vacuum.

getmore4less

What should be happening is forced increased warranty(parts and labor)

no good squeezing 10% of the running costs when most of the lifecycle brownery is manufacturing and disposal.

coffeehound

martinsurrey wrote: »

not at all, I was right, and am still right, the large hoover is on 100% power 100% of the time, and all of the time 80% of the energy it is using is being turned to heat, not suction, and there is no way it changes that balance, it is inefficient 100% of the time.

Sorry, but I believe this is wrong. An electric motor balances off current consumption against its loading.

When the loading increases, the motor slows down. When the motor slows, the back-voltage which opposes the incoming current also reduces. The incoming current is thereby allowed to increase, the motor speeds up until again an equilibrium is reached between loading and current consumption.

Since power is directly related to current, the power dissipation is also changing with the workload. So a bigger motor does in fact have power in reserve.

A lower capacity motor may be able to run at its top power output equal to an unstressed larger motor, but it will run hotter, and so burn out earlier.

To give an example of the problem, my 1400 watt Dyson with automatic height adjustment brush bar bogs down even on short-pile carpet. In fact it's bad enough that I usually leave the brush switched off to avoid losing suction.

That being the case, how can an 800 watt vacuum do a better job unless it is either a) not brushing as well, or b) losing suction?

martinsurrey wrote: »

Dysons biggest are around 700W... they have no need to improve.

and yes mielle have been developing motors for a while, which is why their best are under 800W

so you are proving my point, good well designed brands are already under the limits, this will only effect the large brands that still sell on the sticker number, which is a good thing.

Although it is now incredibly difficult to find out (coincidence?), the Big Ball Centric is apparently 1200 watts. Strange that Dyson would settle on such a power output when given a free hand.

Other variables worth considering: Which? have said that self-assessed manufacturer performance ratings cannot be trusted.

Dyson has challenged Miele on their power ratings. As described above, given that motor current draw can vary considerably, it leaves a question mark over what power rating you take.

I still doubt that an 800 watt vacuum cleaner will work as well, or for as long as, a 1200 watt.

getmore4less wrote: »

What should be happening is forced increased warranty(parts and labor)

no good squeezing 10% of the running costs when most of the lifecycle brownery is manufacturing and disposal.

Succinctly put.

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patman99

I bet once again industrial vacs will be exempted.