Suspended - Pending Disciplinary

powerful_Rogue

stuart30 wrote: »

Attiila...You walk into a supermarket,security gaurd grabs your bag after a discussion and puts them outside the store.

He then Grabs you as he feels you might chin him..now think how you would feel.

Wouldn't you expect the security guard to be suspend whilst investigated and most likely fired.

What you should have done is tried to take her details and once assaulted phone the police on 999 and create as much distance between you and the woman.

Im assuming your a man and she is a woman..man grabs woman...dont look good does it.

All depends on the situation.

Based on what the OP has stated, it appears he had an honestly held belief that he was in immediate danger and as such used reasonable and necessary force to avert that danger.

stuart30

attilla.the.hun wrote: »

I understand this, but i was hit first without warning. The woman in question is transsexual , I didn't try and hurt her just stop her from hitting me further. Where I stepped back was about 3 seconds I then held on to her, is this really the wrong thing? I thought it was proportionate as I honestly believed the assault would continue.

I did get distance once I thought I was in a safer position, when the passenger got on and helped. and I called 999 but she followed me and tried to assault me again.

Yes appreciate all that mate but its how it appears to others who wasnt there,they will simply see "Big nasty man grabs poor helpless woman".

Whilst that not the case it how it could be seen..if it had been a bloke you grabbed i doubt anyone would be concerned,says alot about equality doesn't it.:eek::)

Work in security and ex doors..so fully get where your coming from,trouble is your screwed either way.

attilla.the.hun

sangie595 wrote: »

My profuse apologies. I missed the bit that said your weren't asking for advice, and had included a list of the things we were to say to you.

• You did absolutely nothing wrong
• This is all a management conspiracy to get you out
• It's appalling how these criminals think they have rights
• Your employers policies should be changed to say that anything goes as long as there is a really good excuse for it

There now. Feel better?

That is all, of course, a load of b****cks. But it's what you want to hear.
I'm out.

And I was the one with the anger issues... thanks for the comments.. :

polgara

Sangie doesn't have anger issues but she/others do get frustrated when posters are asking for advice and then insisting that the feedback is wrong. You're a new poster and some feedback is that you did come across quite agressively - which is excellent feedback when going into a disciplinary process as going in with an attitude can lead to higher sanctions if it gets to a hearing.

mac.d

attilla.the.hun wrote: »

As I thought,

however, is there anything I can do or say further to save my job?

In terms of grabbing the member of the public, just make it clear you grabbed her in self defence only to stop her hitting you again and that it was just a reaction, in hindsight you understand this was the wrong thing to do and you should just have stepped away from her. Apologise, accept you were wrong and request training to help you deal with similar situations in future.

Also try and go into it with the attitude that you were wrong and may end up losing your job, as much as you feel it'd be unfair.

Fingers crossed they will accept you know you were wrong and want to learn how to better deal with abusive members of the public.

And I agree with what polgara has just posted, maybe it came across to you as being a bit blunt, but Sangie isn't wrong in the comments she(?) has made to you. If you react the same way in your disciplinary interview if someone tries to point out what you did was wrong, you'll definitely be out of a job!

Good luck!

TBagpuss

attilla.the.hun wrote: »

As I thought,

however, is there anything I can do or say further to save my job? there have been other staff in similar circumstances but have had a written warning. I fear that will not be the decision of the manager holding the hearing

Yes, go back and read Sangie's original advice and follow it!

from what you say, you broke company policy. So (subject to your Union Rep's advice) it is likely to be sensible to accept that, and at the hearing to acknowledge that, to be clear that you recognise that you did not act appropriately in engaging her after she became hostile and in dumping her property on the platform.

You can then explain that your intention at the time was ti assist her to buy a ticket to avoid things escalating, that you did not mean to leave her stuff behind and that you have learned from the situation and would act differently if a similar situation arose.

You can also explain that while you accept that you should have disengaged from her earlier, that the second time, after she assaulted you, you took reasonable steps to try to disengage but when she continued to attack you you did try to protect yourself.

It may be enough to allow the person making the decision to decide not to sack you. I presume that the disciplinary process allows for an appeal if not, and it may at that time be relevant to raise the issue of how other, similar issues have been addressed.

Claiming that you are being picked on or victimised by the the manager making the decision is almost never going to be helpful, unless you have absolutely cast-iron evidence.

stuart30

powerful_Rogue wrote: »

All depends on the situation.

Based on what the OP has stated, it appears he had an honestly held belief that he was in immediate danger and as such used reasonable and necessary force to avert that danger.

Yes that old chestnut..what is reasonable force.

I was arrested and charged for assault..when hand cuffs were going on i said politely to arresting officer "The guy was throwing a punch at my mum and threaten to rape her" thats the reason i stepped in and restrained him.

Coppers answer ""You cannot do anything until after the fact"...i was actually charged for using to much force in restraining him.

Its such a wishy washy law it can be interpreted either way..same as door staff have no backing when it comes down to it.
:j

For the record sounds like OP was well with in his rights..but i doubt his employers will see it that way.

powerful_Rogue

stuart30 wrote: »

Yes that old chestnut..what is reasonable force.

I was arrested and charged for assault..when hand cuffs were going on i said politely to arresting officer "The guy was throwing a punch at my mum and threaten to rape her" thats the reason i stepped in and restrained him.

Coppers answer ""You cannot do anything until after the fact"...i was actually charged for using to much force in restraining him.

Its such a wishy washy law it can be interpreted either way..same as door staff have no backing when it comes down to it.
:j

For the record sounds like OP was well with in his rights..but i doubt his employers will see it that way.

Reasonable force depends on the situation. A good guideline is that if you was to get onto a bus and explain the situation to the passengers, would they think what you did was reasonable.

Well the copper was wrong. As long as you held an honestly held belief that you was in immediate danger, then you can make a pre-emptive move - again, as long as it was reasonable.

Ozzuk

Take a deep breath, maybe some time out then read the thread again. People are trying to help - it may not be what you want to hear but they are asking you questions and pointing out what (it looks like) you have done wrong. The investigation will be a lot more challenging than some people on the internet and they will likely be looking to protect the company not you (whereas we are trying to help you) so if you display these kind of responses to them, or try and come up with pretty lame excuses for a lot of your behavior then you'll be out - and you'll find it very hard to get a new job.

You need to do damage limitation, forget silly excuses and justification (bag with food in? You said coat earlier, could have had phone, purse, keys, medication etc in it). Point out the passenger was aggressive, assaulted you several times, you recognise you didn't deal with it as well as you could have, maybe ask if there is training available that could help this and be humble, and hope you keep your job.

Good luck.

FBaby

however, is there anything I can do or say further to save my job? there have been other staff in similar circumstances but have had a written warning. I fear that will not be the decision of the manager holding the hearing

Unfortunately, these situations often become political in that the company will have to show that they have acted properly and taken the matter seriously. It is very possible that had she not attacked you and her belongings had been returned and she would have just complained, you would have been told off and given a written warning for not following policies and that would have been it.

As it is though, the police was involved and I expect the incident might even have been reported to the press, so suddenly, it becomes a matter of public domain, so the issue of reputation gets thrown into it. I expect the company wouldn't want to mitigate the possible risk this incident will cause to their reputation by at least showing evidence that they take such matters seriously and have therefore sacked the staff involved in poor judgement.

It's tough, must have happened very quickly, but you did make the wrong decision and unfortunately, it escalated to a serious incident. I hope you recover from this and manage to move on.