Suspended - Pending Disciplinary

attilla.the.hun

Hi

I have been suspended for gross misconduct.

I work as a Ticket inspector and was assaulted whilst conducting a check. I will describe the facts

Checking tickets woman has not got one. Refuses to comply so I say just get off at the next stop. She just stayed in the seat not moving, so I pick her coat and bag up and get off at the next station. She still refuses to get off, still sitting in her seat, so I get back on the train and tell her she needs to get off.

Driver then closes door and her stuff is left on platform (VERY early in morning no one about)

She then goes ballistic I say we will get off at next stop (2 mins away) and go back to get her stuff. she just punches me in face. I then grab her arms, we struggle and I let her go. I step back pause for a few seconds then I grab her again (as I know she is going to hit me again)

Next stop comes, passenger gets on where we are and sees the struggle. I tell the passenger that I have been assaulted. I let her go and the passenger assists by talking to the woman. However I am then punched 2 more times (in face - teeth are loosened)

Train terminates I call police and she is arrested.

I take some time off work.

I then resume work (I am due a 18 day holiday so I dont want to be off sick and go on holiday) but then Im suspended as the woman has complained that I have strangled her and stuff is missing from her bag!

Investigation finds that I am in breech of company policy as I "re-engaged" the woman when I should of walked away - I already insisted that I was afraid for my safety and she was going to assault me again so this is why I grabbed her again.

The company also say I used "excessive" force as we struggled and bounced off some seats

Bearing in mind the police are going to prosecute this woman, I am not being charged as I have done nothing wrong, I am the victim. She has been interviewed and the evidence has been complied. The police have put forward the case for her to be prosecuted for common assault.

I have been with company for over 13 years, never had anything like this before, but I am not a favourite of the management as I have often criticised working practices and often speak out about regular changes to working routines and shift patterns (and I mean regular changes)

Also I had a run in with the manager who is taking the hearing (over flexible working) a few years ago and made him look stupid. I also once head this manager say how many people he had sacked (I am not making this up! )

So I have my hearing in a few weeks (I have union representation) but as far as I can see to the letter of the company policy I indeed have breached them.

I would like peoples thoughts and opinions on this

Many thanks

marliepanda

Your company policy does not depend on the police investigation.

You can be dismissed for things the police wouldn't care about. Conversely the police can prosecute you for things which your company doesn't mind.

sangie595

marliepanda wrote: »

Your company policy does not depend on the police investigation.

You can be dismissed for things the police wouldn't care about. Conversely the police can prosecute you for things which your company doesn't mind.

Unfortunately I agree. I can see several points at which you have acted inappropriately, and you may not have been charged - but equally she has not been found guilty.

You removed her possessions. You purposely left them at a station. Whilst that does not excuse violence, you actually provoked the whole incident by doing that. Yes, she was traveling without a ticket. But she offered no violence until you took action which, at best, is highly questionable. You should have simply called the police if she refused to comply, and I'm pretty sure that will be your company policy - it certainly is at the network my friends husband works at. And you did engage with her again, which, as you say, is against company policy. Why did you not simply walk away and call the police?

You need to listen very carefully to what your union advise. They know the employer best. But given you cannot defend your actions, I believe that sincere apologies and a recognition that you might have handled this better will be required. Much as I wouldn't be traveling without a ticket in the first place, I'd have to say, being objective about it, if you had taken my things and left them behind on a public station platform, I'd have gone ballistic too! I wouldn't have hit you, but you can be sure you'd be at risk of losing your job anyway. Think about it - house keys, money, cards, address... it would be a dream find for any criminal. I'm afraid I can't see how you could have handled this whole incident worse.

bryanb

Does your username say something about your personality?

attilla.the.hun

I did not assault this woman or put her in danger. She was hostile from the start, removing someones property is hardly an offence, bearing in mind she had already broken then law by refusing to provide details. All I was doing was removing her from our property without any physical contact.

I did not intentionally leave her items at the station as I was going to stay on the platform with her to make sure she didnt board the next train and bought a ticket from the ticket office, pretty reasonable as she would of been reported for fare evasion (which is a criminal offence) Also she is being prosecuted for assault

Why all the attitude from posts? I sense some hatred towards or loathing towards me..

attilla.the.hun

Hi

It was a carrier bag with some food in it. I also told her that we would get off at the next stop and get it back.

attilla.the.hun

sangie595 wrote: »

Unfortunately I agree. I can see several points at which you have acted inappropriately, and you may not have been charged - but equally she has not been found guilty.

You removed her possessions. You purposely left them at a station. Whilst that does not excuse violence, you actually provoked the whole incident by doing that. Yes, she was travelling without a ticket. But she offered no violence until you took action which, at best, is highly questionable. You should have simply called the police if she refused to comply, and I'm pretty sure that will be your company policy - it certainly is at the network my friends husband works at. And you did engage with her again, which, as you say, is against company policy. Why did you not simply walk away and call the police?

You need to listen very carefully to what your union advise. They know the employer best. But given you cannot defend your actions, I believe that sincere apologies and a recognition that you might have handled this better will be required. Much as I wouldn't be traveling without a ticket in the first place, I'd have to say, being objective about it, if you had taken my things and left them behind on a public station platform, I'd have gone ballistic too! I wouldn't have hit you, but you can be sure you'd be at risk of losing your job anyway. Think about it - house keys, money, cards, address... it would be a dream find for any criminal. I'm afraid I can't see how you could have handled this whole incident worse.

Hi

There was no intention in leaving the items at the station, I also said I would get off and get her stuff back as the stop was only 2 mins away (you can walk it in 15) It was a carrier bag with some food in it, she had her handbag with her. I grabbed her again as I believed she was going to hit me again (which she did) There was no where else to go and again if I walked I believe that she would of assaulted me further, I did walk off when the customer stepped in, and the woman followed me and tried to assault me again.

attilla.the.hun

Just to add I also called a colleague to get her bag from the station, which he did about 20 mins later.

Rosemary7391

What does your company policy say about these situations? I'd be amazed if it included removing random items from passengers, regardless of "intent" to leave them behind - if it does then I'd rather not travel with that company lest I find myself without my ticket for some reason...

You need to recognise what you should have done so that you can try to reassure the company that you will act appropriately in the future.

attilla.the.hun

Rosemary7391 wrote: »

What does your company policy say about these situations? I'd be amazed if it included removing random items from passengers, regardless of "intent" to leave them behind - if it does then I'd rather not travel with that company lest I find myself without my ticket for some reason...

You need to recognise what you should have done so that you can try to reassure the company that you will act appropriately in the future.

Absolutely I understand what you are saying, I did state that I was helping her with he bags as I said " come on I will help you get a ticket" then got off

It was not a malicious intention it was in essence doing her a favour as I would of helped her buy a ticket from the machine at the station, I have got off before with passengers and helped them buy tickets as normally they are pleased they are not being reported.

sangie595

attilla.the.hun wrote: »

Hi

Hi

The I did not intentionally leave her items at the station and she is being prosecuted so those points are both mute. Of course you intentionally left them. You had no right to take her personal belongings in the first place. You purposely put them down on the platform, and then you left them there when you knew the train would depart. Which part of that wasn't on purpose? And (a) being persecuted is not an assumption of guilt; and (b) nobody said that she was right to act the way she did, but your initial actions certainly did a lot to escalate the matter to the point it reached.

I also detect hostility from the posters, I did not assault this woman or put her in danger. There is no hostility. You are assuming that because you are getting objective views and those differ from your own. Nobody said that you assaulted her (although that may be open to dispute) and nobody said that you placed her in danger - although, since you brought it up, I don't think being stranded somewhere without money, purse, bag and so on is doing something that leaves her entirely safe . She was hostile from the start, removing someones property is hardly an offence, Yes, actually it isbearing in mind she had already broken then law by refusing to provide details. two wrongs make a right in your book?All I was doing was removing her from our property without any physical contact. No, you were not. You were removing her property and abandoning it on a station platform. You might not have thought this through very well, but that is nevertheless what you did.

I did not intentionally leave her items at the station as I was going to stay on the platform with he to make sure she didnt board the next train and bought a ticket from the ticket office, pretty reasonable as she would of been reported for fare evasion (which is a criminal offence) Also she is being prosecuted for assault You could have picked up the items and returned to the train. You got on - so what was so hard in returning her things to the train? And is it your job to abandon the train and follow defaulting customers around? That seems somewhat over zealous?

Why all the attitude from posts? I sense some hatred towards or loathing towards me..

No, that is quite ridiculous. There is no hatred or loathing. What there is is a questioning of the logic and sense to your actions, and a recognition that your actions were inappropriate. I am relatively sure that if you go into a disciplinary with this attitude, and attack anyone you don't agree with, then the outcome will be very bad for you. The fact that, in your mind, this woman was a criminal, is coloring your vision - that doesn't justify anything you did, and the policies are there for a reason. And she is not a "criminal" yet - don't assume that she is convicted yet, and just remember that by the time her lawyer spins this story, she may never be.

You need to calm down and step back - barging into a situation like a bull in a China shop is what got you into this situation in the first place. And toy are exhibiting exactly the same attitude here, simply attacking anyone who doesn't agree with you that your are entirely innocent of anything. You aren't entirely innocent. And no amount of name calling and alleging personal hatred towards you is going to make you entirely innocent. So you can either go in there "swinging," as you did in the first place, and risk that this is the step that gets you dismissed; or you can try to ameliorate the situation by acknowledging that perhaps, in hindsight, you should have managed this better, and you regret that you did not.