Faulty PC from PC retailer

angryparcel

The threat of a £50 a day storage charge is an incentive for them to collect the item. after 14 day if he has not collected i have to phone citizens advice again so they can talk me through the next steps i can take.
They know what the letter i sent says

George_Michael

angryparcel wrote: »

the business is a limited company, so the item needs to be rented, loaned or sold to the limited company.

So where is this stated in either the CRA or the guidance notes for the legislation?

It isn't, for the simple reason that it's not the case.
The High court have rules on exactly how a consumer is defined:
http://www.allenovery.com/publications/en-gb/Pages/High-Court-clarifies-the-scope-of-consumers-for-the-purpose-of-the-Unfair-Terms-in-Consumer-Contracts-Regulations-1999.aspx

The term "consumer" is defined in the UTCCR (Regulation 3(1)) as a person who enters into a contract covered by the UTCCR and "is acting for purposes which are outside his trade, business or profession".

If you buy something with the intention of that something being used for business purposes, it doesn't matter how it was paid for or if it is not rented, loaned or sold to a business.

angryparcel

George_Michael wrote: »

So where is this stated in either the CRA or the guidance notes for the legislation?

It isn't, for the simple reason that it's not the case.
The High court have rules on exactly how a consumer is defined:
http://www.allenovery.com/publications/en-gb/Pages/High-Court-clarifies-the-scope-of-consumers-for-the-purpose-of-the-Unfair-Terms-in-Consumer-Contracts-Regulations-1999.aspx

If you buy something with the intention of that something being used for business purposes, it doesn't matter how it was paid for or if it is not rented, loaned or sold to a business.

purchased as a consumer. a limited company i am a director or in other words an employee. It is not used for any business activity until it is sold or rented to the limited company.
Citizens Advice are well aware of this

George_Michael

angryparcel wrote: »

purchased as a consumer. a limited company i am a director or in other words an employee. It is not used for any business activity until it is sold or rented to the limited company.
Citizens Advice are well aware of this

So, if I owned a laundrette, I could purchase a washing machine on my personal credit card then providing that I didn't officially sell or rent it to my own limited company, I could use that washing machine all day long to wash customer's clothing then when it failed, use the Consumer rights act to force the seller to provide a remedy?

wealdroam

Angryparcel, the question posed in your original post:

angryparcel wrote: »

My question is if it is returned to me then how long have i to give the seller to collect it before i dispose of it

...has already been answered, and it wasn't CAB that gave you that answer.

Not sure why you are continuing to counter every response on this thread with something like "CAB said...".
Do you understand that the CAB is also staffed mainly by volunteers?

angryparcel

George_Michael wrote: »

So, if I owned a laundrette, I could purchase a washing machine on my personal credit card then providing that I didn't officially sell or rent it to my own limited company, I could use that washing machine all day long to wash customer's clothing then when it failed, use the Consumer rights act to force the seller to provide a remedy?

but my PC does not get used until it is passed over to the limited company

wealdroam

angryparcel wrote: »

purchased as a consumer. a limited company i am a director or in other words an employee. It is not used for any business activity until it is sold or rented to the limited company.
Citizens Advice are well aware of this

Section 2 of The Consumer Rights Act defines a consumer:

(3) “Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual's trade, business, craft or profession.

neilmcl

angryparcel wrote: »

the business is a limited company, so the item needs to be rented, loaned or sold to the limited company.

No it doesn't and I'm sure if you have an accountant he will tell you the same. An item can still be used and subsequently classed as benefit to your business even if it was purchased with your own funds.

unholyangel

DavidP24 wrote: »

It is incredible how people seem to want to go on the side of the person who has wronged.

I am not going to waste more time countering so called "acceptance" except to say that the Court will make a reasonable consideration that if the business signed for the communication, responded to it intelligently the Court will probably take a view that they had a chance to avoid their cost and failed to do it.

People do not have to explicitly accept things, honestly! They can go to Court and say I do not accept this that or the other and the Judge will make a decision.

I'd ask if you understand the basics of contract law but the answer is blatantly "no" based on what you're saying.

In Entorres v Miles Far East [1955], the courts stated in order for acceptance to be effective, it needs to be communicated to the offeror. Or that in Felthouse v Bindley [1862] it was held that lack of response (silence) cannot be taken as acceptance.

Now, do you have any precedent (whether binding or persuasive) to back up your claim that people do not need to explicitly accept? Or was that just personal supposition based on how you think things should work rather than how it actually works?

wealdroam wrote: »

Do you understand that the CAB is also staffed mainly by volunteers?

Volunteers that are just reading off the website (which doesn't mention anything about storage costs in these circumstances - it used to, but it was removed when it became evident the courts don't support such claims).

unholyangel

DavidP24 wrote: »

Gosh I do not understand why people feel the need to attack the OP, who can add and extend their thread as far as they wish.

If SOME people have a problem then please use that Unsubscribe button at the top.

As for the company vs consumer, it starts with who is named on the paperwork, if the vendor sold it to an individual then their contract is with that individual. If the vendor subsequently wants to allege that the buyer used it in a way that unfit for purpose they would need to make that case.

The best example of this is someone buying a drill from B&Q and then using it their trade as a locksmith.

PC's fall well outside this nonsense because there really is no difference between the way they are run, I have home systems that have run 18 to 24 hours a day for nearly 10 years.

The whole consumer vs business argument is moot because the PC failed almost immediately, so why bother going on and on and on and on about it.

Now the OP simply has to wait, the vendor will either collect the PC or not, they have 14 days.

Disagreeing with someone is not attacking them. And likewise, if you have a problem with the responses here, you're free to not read any of them.


As for the bit in bold, again it shows how little you understand.

The explanatory notes for the CRA provides:

The other main restriction on who is a consumer is that a consumer must be acting wholly or mainly outside their trade, business, craft or profession. This means, for example, that a person who buys a kettle for their home, works from home one day a week and uses it on the days when working from home would still be a consumer. Conversely a sole trader that operates from a private dwelling who buys a printer of which 95% of the use is for the purposes of the business, is not likely to be held to be a consumer

Perhaps you should tell the lawmakers they got it wrong because (according to you) it depends on who is named on the paperwork and there is no difference when it comes to consumers & traders purchasing computer equipment.