We can't afford to live together and have children

Hermia

Pixie5740 wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with the OP. The question isn't whether or not the OP and his girlfriend of 11 years should get married before living together. It's two full grown adults still living at home with their respective parents in their 30s....dithering.

As for going straight from living with parents to being married....great it worked out for your parents. It didn't work out for everyone. In fact the number of over-60s getting divorced dubbed the "silver splitters" is increasing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34767821

A lot of the older people I know do actually think living together is a good idea because of their memories of early married life. Or they remember friends who realised they had nothing in common with their OH when they got married & started living together. Gender roles were also a lot more rigid back then so people went into marriage knowing what their role was (whether they liked it or not). These days it is so different and a person's attitude to gender roles often only emerges when you live with them.

I also think the OP and GF should try renting together because they have been together so long without living together. I have noticed a trend for couples who have meandered along for years to break up the moment they begin living together or marry! I think maybe these relationships always had underlying issues, but they were not noticeable whilst everything was fairly casual.

Lunar_Eclipse

I say go for it - you're over analysing the situation with 'what ifs' and obviously have a sensible attitude when it comes from money given your current living arrangements, savings and decent jobs.

We had a 252k mortgage with a single earner on 40k (which equated to less take home than yours) and 2 young children about 15 years ago, when interest rates were much higher. The base rate is virtually zero, so although there is only one way it can go, 10% is statistically very unlikely, especially in the short-medium term.

If you both want children, I would get on with it all now; the clock keeps ticking. Tomorrow will look after itself.

Lunar_Eclipse

davidwood123 wrote: »

Doesn't work nowadays.

Different times and different attitudes towards divorce.

They NEED to live together

Generally speaking yes, times and attitudes have changed, but there are people who believe in traditional values regarding marriage and divorce to negate the 'need' for living together. Anyone marrying in Church shouldn't believe divorce is an option really.

And although I did personally, probably because we were young, you don't need to live with someone first in order for a relationship to survive (and thrive.) It is the more common order of things though.

trix-a-belle

JPB156 wrote: »

It would be 600 for first 5 years but would quickly double if interest rates return to more normal levels

i've through the whole thread and probably shouldn't reply due to frustration but i can still the glimmer of what you want to do but are worrying about. apologies if it comes off a little blunt but i have just spurted out all my thoughts following reading the thread

first; this post stuck out to me, what are normal interest levels? thats like asking who is normal, there is no normal! [i think you are taking this 20 year high they have given you as normal, don't.]
I bought my house nearly 10 years ago just before the last crash & when rates were far more than they are now & i'm still standing, i'm now looking at moving & trying to consider the future and futureproof myself but i haven't got a crystal ball so i'm being realistic and considering advice given to me it just comes down to if i can sell my current place and find a new place of the right size for the budget.

I get that you are trying to think of all the angles but you are fixing some aspects (your salary & apparently your position, not sure about you but i couldn't do the same job for the next 30+ years i plan on taking opportunities that come up which will grow my experience, salary and employability) and considering others as dynamic (interest rates, house prices [apparently in only a downward direction]), they are all dynamic therefore just look at the situation at the moment for all factors otherwise you are just making excuses to avoid taking the step however you try and dress it up as 'planning'. You can not predict the future.

now where on earth you are getting 10% from, if rates went up and were at 10% immediately after you got out of a 5 year fix (lets call it 2022 assuming you buy this place while your aip is valid) the bank of england would have to be putting it up in big chunks at a time or be getting a wiggle on to do small frequent rises and there is nothing suggesting either any time soon from what i've seen, additionally if this were the case there would be plenty of people up sh*t creek well before you got there, this is stuff that is taken into account every month when they consider whether to raise the base rate or not

yes house prices are higher than they were but the last crash was relatively recent, they will go up more, there might be another crash but if you don't buy now and dither longer you will be in a worse position if you later decide to take the plunge unless you wait until prices crash but do you really want to stay living with your parents until something that may never come. yes taking on a mortgage is a risk but its one tonnes of people do, people also get in a car every day which my great uncle who was a driving instructor rightly told people is a deadly weapon. you have a seriously healthy deposit there and are in a far better situation than many others willing to take the risk of getting a mortgage, and are not stretching things to unrealistic levels as everything currently stands. just get on and do it. if we avoided all risks we would be hidden in a cupboard wrapped in cotton wool & what life is that, you have to take a little risk to get anywhere, even getting out of bed in the morning.

so repeat after me; I do not have a crystal ball, we are in a very good position and there are lots of people who would struggle before me, I will take opportunities to grow, better myself and improve my position.

i'm also inclined to agree with others that you should go out and rent together for a couple of months to get a grasp of day to day living expenses and have your own space together for a little while as living with parents will have likely dulled any joy a little & i am someone who doesn't believe in renting saying that.
(fyi in case you would like to take on board someone elses monthly figures; my monthly bills for me + a housemate in a 4 bed house are £280 + my food shopping is about £140 a month for me [cooking for 1 is not cost effective] & i put away £120 a month for big annual bills such as insurances, car tax, tv license, boiler service etc = £540/month, i switch services when required but not to obsessive levels, treat myself and do have the heating up rather than putting on extra layers sometimes

also; ok you may apparently be 'less than optimal' but if you stress about it and dwell on it, it definitely won't happen. what is meant to be will happen so just enjoy the road getting there

eta: the whole after retirement thing is another example of not having a crystal ball, the criteria will not be the same then so why scare yourself about not being able to afford to pay rent/mortgage then now

sheramber

JPB156 wrote: »

My ambition in my job is irrelevant, working up doesn't pay much more I know it's weird but that's how it is I've looked into it and I've looked at changing career and anything that pays more requires different skills to the ones I have gained. I will keep looking for it but I cannot base the decision on the assumption it will happen

Then look into gaining these skills- night school, hobbies that will give you the skills.

My husband started work as an apprentice electrician in the coal mines.
He went to night school to study electronics and got a job working for an electronics firm. He ended up being business development manager.

Some body who wants to get on will find a way to do so.

pinkduvetdiva

OP, due to circumstances beyond my control, I bloomed later than you, but holy cow! You've been with your partner for 11 years and are still at home with your parents when you have a deposit and a mortgage agreed in principle! That's not good.

You're absolutely right to do your research regarding the house market, but you're now overthinking things. You need to do something. Life is too short to spend time worrying about what might or might not happen.

Rent a place for a while - that way you'll really get to know each other's "home ethic" and if things don't work out after that, it's fairly easy to disentangle.

Plan your route. Will the journey be smooth, or will there be something blocking your path? Will you have to turn back and choose a different path? How could you make your journey easier? Nobody on here could possibly know - the only way to find out is by taking that first step forward.

Redacted

JPB156 - are you/your girlfriend paying into pensions? I ask as net pay calculators suggest on £17000 each you should be taking home £1235 a month each, so £2470 not £2300?

At an 80% LTV you could obtain a 3% or under 10yr fix. On a 25 year loan for £150,000 that would be repayments of £711 a month, representing 31% of £2300 or 29% of £2470.

Government has made a commitment to increase the living wage to £9 an hour by 2020, so assuming you both work full time 40 hours a week, your income will increase to £18720 each per annum by year 3 of your mortgage. Using this year's tax free allowances, which also typically go up each year, that increases your household net income to £2670 without pension contributions by 2020 as a minimum. Your mortgage commitment is then under 27% of your household income.

Let's then assume a measly living wage increase of 1% a year for the remaining 7 years of your fix rate term. By year 10, your a annual income is £20,070 each if both still working full time. Again, using this year's tax free allowances that would give a household minimum net pay of £2820 a month, and your mortgage commitment is just over 25% of your income

By the end of your 10 year fix, your debt should be reduced to £103,000 based on the initial 25 year term. You would still have 22 years left til state retirement age, so if interest rates had increased to 10% you would still have the option to remortgage over a 22 year term. £103,000 over 22 years at 10% gives you a mortgage payment of £966 a month. It's not nice, if you've got used to paying £711, but would still represent less than 35% of your likely minimum net household pay at that time, if both still working full time, and comfortably falls under your 40% marker.

Even if you had received no pay rises each in those 7 years after the government meets their living wage commitment for 2020, it would still represent under 37% of £2670, still meeting your 40% target.

JPB156

I really do appreciate all the replies and despite what some people may feel I am trying to take them all on.

One thing I have realised is not just the fear of the future but also of having the worry of money and responsibility. in the time we have been looking for somewhere I have been so frustrated at times as we felt we weren't going to find anywhere. I never thought it would be easy but now faced with actually working it all out it's actually hit me how hard it could be at times.

I have been very good with my money but I haven't had to try too hard as my only real expense is my car. I don't spend much on myself but am used to the ability to be able to afford to treat myself whenever I want within reason.

I know that's a luxury that I've had for longer than most people do and now I have to do it. It will be a steep learning curve but it has to be done.

Thank you for the info on wages, I know they are saying about raising minimum wage by 2020, if labour get in they have said it will be 10 but I am trying to take nothing for granted and if it happens it's a bonus. I have the frame of mind of trying to work everything out with the assumption that no help will be available, whether it be financially or with childcare or whatever else

suejb2

My days! That's 14 pages of reading I won't ever get back? I kept reading thinking, nay,hoping he would take the guidance given.

Stop being such a negative Nancy and J.D.I. You seem to have some gumption as you have saved a worthy deposit.

There was an advert for Warburtons bread many years back and I'm sorry I can't link but Google is your friend
"Do we have to go through this riigmarole every time Derek, just throw it to the ducks!" My point being stop faffing around and get on with it. The ducks want the bread and you want a house.

KxMx

JPB156 wrote: »

I really do appreciate all the replies and despite what some people may feel I am trying to take them all on.

One thing I have realised is not just the fear of the future but also of having the worry of money and responsibility. in the time we have been looking for somewhere I have been so frustrated at times as we felt we weren't going to find anywhere. I never thought it would be easy but now faced with actually working it all out it's actually hit me how hard it could be at times.

I have been very good with my money but I haven't had to try too hard as my only real expense is my car. I don't spend much on myself but am used to the ability to be able to afford to treat myself whenever I want within reason.

I know that's a luxury that I've had for longer than most people do and now I have to do it. It will be a steep learning curve but it has to be done.

Thank you for the info on wages, I know they are saying about raising minimum wage by 2020, if labour get in they have said it will be 10 but I am trying to take nothing for granted and if it happens it's a bonus. I have the frame of mind of trying to work everything out with the assumption that no help will be available, whether it be financially or with childcare or whatever else

That's just another reason IMO to rent somewhere for a few months. You need a reality check in terms of finances and living together.

To go from your situation now to a mortgage is going to put a heck of a lot of pressure on your relationship and finances.