Letter before claim from solicitor

Umkomaas

I will do the new address letter today

First class post and get a free Certificate of Posting from your Post Office counter (not Signed For/Registered Post). Keep hold of the cert of posting - it's your proof that CEL have received your notification.

Am I ok to use this template by 'LandsofChildren' as my respond to their LBC or Pre Action Conduct and Protocol?

Is that the one linked from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #2. If so, that's the one to use.

All the up-to-date advice re any court case (from LBC to the hearing) will be contained in that sticky, if it's there, no need to question it further.

Loadsofchildren123

Plastic18 wrote: »

Thank you for the advise, Johnersh. I will do the new address letter today, and try to do the 2nd letter by tomorrow. Am I ok to use this template by 'LandsofChildren' as my respond to their LBC or Pre Action Conduct and Protocol? http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=72358831#post72358831

That draft was pre-October 2017 which was before the Protocol for Debt Claims came into force.


Before October, the document governing pre-action procedures and requirements was the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct.


So that letter is out of date. You can use it as a template, but references to the PD and specific paragraphs of it need to be changed to references to the new Protocol. The Protocol essentially contains the same obligations you are saying they've failed to comply with, you just need to refer to the Protocol and not the PD, and the correct paragraph numbers of it. You need to read the new Protocol (it's clearly written and not hard to follow) - google it and you'll find it on the justice website.


Paras 13-16 of the old PD continue to apply (these set out what sanctions there are for failing to comply with the Protocol), so you can still refer to these.


The case law also holds good so should stay in.

nosferatu1001

CEL do not turn up to defended hearings.
the problem is, if you dont give them your address, you wont get a chance to defend.

so od as told and give them your new address. Otherwise you will be expecting help to get a CCJ unwound, and that wont be fun!

Plastic18

Thank you very much, LoadsofChildren. Really appreciate your advice. I will look into the new Protocol and amend as necessary. Their letter was dated around 6 working days ago. I should have enough time to respond within their 30days limit? Is it ok if I post my draft here for comments before I send it to them? Sorry, I know it's a lot to ask...

Plastic18

Is this link the correct and current protocol you're referring to? : https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf

KeithP

Plastic18 wrote: »

Is this link the correct and current protocol you're referring to? : https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf

That's the one.

Plastic18

LoadsofChildren, or anyone who could spare a couple of minutes, mind looking through this draft I've updated? I've amended my own version in red...many thanks!

[FONT=&quot]When your client's debt collectors first started contacting me, I asked them for details of the basis upon which money was being claimed, including all photographs taken of the vehicle at the relevant time. Extraordinarily, I was told by ZZPS that no such evidence would be provided and their client feels there is sufficient evidence to pursue this PCN and have maintained their instructions to recover the outstanding balance and the next course of action is to pass this to the solicitors, Wright Hassall LLP. ( Actual correspondence)


You have now sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, again, fails to provide the photographic evidence, which I requested as long ago as of 20th January 2017. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.


This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Pre-Action Protocol. Your client cannot simply refuse to provide the relevant information and maintained there is sufficient evidence to pursue the PCN.

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. An explanation of the cause of action
2. Whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper
3. Whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012
4. What the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)
5. A copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim
6. A copy of any alleged contract with the driver
7. A plan showing where any signs were displayed
8. Details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)
9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 5.1 and 5.2(a), 5.2(b), 5.2(c) of the Pre-Action Protocol. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 8.1 and 8.2. (I hope I’ve got the correct and up-to-date version of the protocol?)

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) !!!8211; Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as [date or month/year of first request] yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.


Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

Yours faithfully etc.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Coupon-mad

I should have enough time to respond within their 30days limit?

But it doesn't matter.

That was the point I made to you yesterday.

I am not saying do not reply! I AM saying stop obsessing about the '30 days, am I too late?' or worrying too much about getting the 'response' right.

IT DOESN'T MATTER.

YOU WILL get a court claim anyway and I want you to read other CEL defence threads to see what happens in the end. I want you to KNOW this will end this Summer and to have the confidence that you won't pay a penny and it saves us soooo much typing of the same old thing if you read other threads to see what will happen (every time).

Loadsofchildren123

In spite of knowing CEL will ignore your response, you still send it to put yourself in the best position for seeking costs.


Your letter's fine - there's a "maintained" that should say "maintain" in your red amendments.


The protocol is new so you've got the the only version of it.


Penultimate para: where you talk about paras 13 and 15, you need to make clear you're referring to the PD, not the protocol, so I'd add after the reference to the para numbers "...of the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, which the Protocol expressly states apply in the case of any failure to comply with it." (the Protocol does expressly state that paras 13-16 of the PD continue to apply). You also need to add in a date to that para.

Plastic18

Ok, thank you CouponMad! I really do appreciate your reply and support.

And thanks, LoadsofChildren, for looking through my draft. I will amend as per advice.

One last thing before I send the letter back, do I sign it? I gathered I should obtain proof of sending from post office and not getting registered or recorded posting. Just unsure if I sign the letter and print my name, will there be any implications? Sorry, not very good with the legal side of things.