The Great British Brexit Robbery....

Arklight

Out,_Vile_Jelly wrote: »

The referendum wasn't won by techie "hijacking" (that is a serious word to use); it was lost by the Remain campaign completely failing to sell the benefits of the EU (whilst acknowledging the flaws); and the dismissive and unyielding attitude of the EU overlords when Cameron tried to obtain some reasonable changes.

Cameron's requested changes may have been reasonable but the way he went about asking for them wasn't. It was another textbook case of a British government going to Europe and speaking to them with both eyes fixed firmly on Daily Mail readers in the Home Counties.


The headline he wanted was "Cam the Man Says Eyoo Can Stick Your Migrant Benefits and Krauts Crumble."


What he got was sent away with a flea in his ear that The Mail and the rest of the UK's hate filled right wing press turned into yet another (absurd) story about the UK being victimised.

mayonnaise

It's going to get interesting when the brexit voting underclasses realise they've been sold a dud.

bugslet

Arklight wrote: »

Having spoken to Leave voters it's hard to believe any amount of propaganda would have swayed their vote. Their minds were made up and then sealed shut some time in the early 80's and no amount of appeals to reason in the 40 years hence would have opened them.
.

We're still labelling everyone as xenophobic based on how they voted, good grief.:(

Leave voters, as with Remainers, cover a whole spectrum. As I've said many times, I was Remain at Christmas, waffled in confusion for a while and finally decided on Leave for various reasons, none of them xenophobic, racist or harking back to times gone by.

Arklight

bugslet wrote: »

We're still labelling everyone as xenophobic based on how they voted, good grief.:(

Leave voters, as with Remainers, cover a whole spectrum. As I've said many times, I was Remain at Christmas, waffled in confusion for a while and finally decided on Leave for various reasons, none of them xenophobic, racist or harking back to times gone by.

What were your reasons?

kabayiri

Arklight wrote: »

What were your reasons?

Why on earth are you asking that question, when you just stated you knew exactly what the reasons were just a few posts earlier?

You moan about closed minds and then exhibit exactly the same behaviour.

Arklight

kabayiri wrote: »

Why on earth are you asking that question, when you just stated you knew exactly what the reasons were just a few posts earlier?

You moan about closed minds and then exhibit exactly the same behaviour.

Actually he said his reasons for voting Leave were different to what I stated so I asked him what they were, because I wanted to know. That's actually the opposite of a closed mind.


Why did you vote Leave?

kabayiri

Arklight wrote: »

Actually he said his reasons for voting Leave were different to what I stated so I asked him what they were, because I wanted to know. That's actually the opposite of a closed mind.


Why did you vote Leave?

Bugs is a she

I voted for selfish reasons. I think we can tap in to a large body of labour elsewhere.

But I've said before. We (UK) have spent the last few decades creating extensive outsourcing arrangements with places like India, so why should anyone be surprised when people like me exist with far more dealings with people in India and China compared to Poland and Romania?

I did think the EU was the future when I worked around Europe pre-2000, but I don't think the project is driven by economics now. Perhaps it's a trust thing.

And...it might seem odd of me to say, but I think Brexit might be just the kind of kick up the pants the EU needs to refocus and become stronger.

stator

Conrad

StevieJ wrote: »

You believe that if you want, who needs friends/supporters like May, Cameron and Corbyn. Only three newspapers :-) They wouldn't happen to be the top circulation ones would they? Telegraph, last moment :-)

A few papers and the odd politician vs


+ the Govt of the day
+ Martin Lewis (most trusted person in UK)
+ the organs of the State
+ Obama
+ the Banks
+ 1000 signatory lawyers
+ Scientists and Universities
+ global leaders
+the IMF
+ Brussels
+Unions
+ CBI
+ COE
+ former PM's
+ the entire Establishment
+Guardian, Mirror, Independent, Times




I wonder which team had the power on it's side?

bugslet

Arklight wrote: »

Actually he said his reasons for voting Leave were different to what I stated so I asked him what they were, because I wanted to know. That's actually the opposite of a closed mind.


Why did you vote Leave?

Yep, I'm definitely a lady.

All the reasons....let's stick with one for now. Regular readers can skip this, it's re-hashing old territory.

I work in International haulage and have done all of my working life since '82 one way or another. I used to drive out to Europe in the mid 80s to early 90s and around 8 out of every 10 trucks were UK registered. The stats for the third quarter of 2016 were 12.6 % were British registered.

Whilst many industries suffer from off-shoring to some degree or another, this is different ( I think unique, but there may be another industry so I'm open to suggestions), and nor is it to do with other EU workers coming here and undercutting pay rates. * In essence we have now primarily Polish, Lithuanian, Romanian and Bulgarian companies where the cost base is significantly lower than in the country where they trade. The primary cost being wages, which in a UK truck forms approx 25% of costs; those nations above are paying around a third of what I would pay a UK driver.

The EU relaxed cabotage rules a couple of years ago (previously a foreign truck could deliver from abroad and then collect to take to another foreign country, but no moves from say Glasgow to Birmingham), to allow three moves in say the UK, before having to collect cargo for abroad. The stated intention is that cabotage be abolished completely. Currently domestic moves by foreign hauliers only account for 1% of UK transport, but the latest DfT figures showed an increase of 50% in one year. Personally I see that increasing.

I'm in a very unusual sector and no Polish company can take my work, but it bothers me that so many Companies have gone and so much tax revenue has been lost. I used to backload via a clearing house/freight exchange, but it is now cheaper for me to bring back a truck from the bottom end of Italy empty than to load it as I cannot work for the rates that the East EU can do. My outbound rate cover the cost of the return, so it isn't an issue, unlike general hauliers.

The EU has actually recognised this as a problem. The UK has been slow in this regard, but over the last two years, several countries - notably France and Germany - have introduced Minimum Wage legislation to say that any haulier from another member state has to pay at least the minimum wage in their country and recently they have enforced the regulation that says that you cannot take a weekend break (45 hours) in the cab. Both those laws are aimed at curtailing East EU hauliers. The EU Transport Commissioner is this month looking at the problem, and I think they will do something dressed up as social care - some of those foreign lads are working for a pittance and are literally away from home for months at a time. It's a carp existence for them.

* ONS estimated that impact on wages was 2%, but discounted sessional workers. Whilst I could lose 2% of my wage and not notice, those on poor pay will. I've given you the above as a reason, this is another. It isn't xenophobia, it's economics. I've no issue with migrant labour and certainly when it comes to the Poles, I've nothing but praise for their work ethic, time-keeping and standards generally, but I do feel sorry for those affected.

Technically I voted against my interests as theoretically being a big bad nasty boss, I should welcome wage suppression and there is potential customs issues arising, but I'm sanguine about those for reasons I've mentioned in previous threads.