Been to court, won, but still more cases!

safarmuk

To safarmuk Is it Parking and Property? I am willing to share. Is there a way for private messages on this thing?

Yes, there is, if you are willing I will PM you my email address and you can use that or you can post your redacted IAS appeal and IAS responses here. Whichever you prefer.

I can assure you I am trustworthy and my sole reason for wishing to see your IAS appeal and the IAS response is that I want to see how the IAS (ludicrously) rebutted your Primacy of Contract argument (that should have won and I guess did indeed win in court). This is because whilst I wait for some cards to fall into place with the residents I am helping, I thought I might amuse myself by having some fun with the IAS myself and any examples of how to get them to tie themselves in unfortunate knots that they might regret later is very welcome

Loadsofchildren123

Having thought about this again, you could apply for immediate strikeout under Rule 3.4. It will cost you £255 but you'd get that back if you won. If you apply with the transcript I can't see that you'd lose. I'll help you with your witness statement, as will others.
Write tomorrow and tell them this is what you will do and give them 7 days to withdraw the new proceedings and to withdraw the LBC regarding the 2 other tickets and to confirm they will not proceed with those.
Draft a letter and post it up for help/comment if you like.
I'd get the transcript of the whole hearing plus judgment. It will be a cost you might get back, but it won't cost the arty. The transcribers I use are Posib, they are quick and efficient. Their website tells you what to do and they can estimate the cost if you tell them how long the hearing lasted.

Half_way

Halfway means "tortious" rather than tortuous.

that's the one, although you could say the latter could also apply.

Im now of the belief that in residential own space cases that you should go full bore at the management agents, the parking companies won't stop until the management companies stop appointing them.

The op has been lucky by being on the ball, how many others would have just paid up?
how many would have ignored everything only to be left with a default judgement and a wrecked credit rating?

how many would have moved and know nothing until they need a loan/mortgage/phone contract?

safarmuk

@Half_way

Im now of the belief that in residential own space cases that you should go full bore at the management agents,

Absolutely agree, but trust me this is not as easy as it sounds. Just see "Hairray's" thread and others. I have people off forum who are in the same boat with their MA. Ultimately as you say it will require a leaseholder (or leaseholders) going to court over this before MA's take notice (as the majority of them are belligerent). Some seem willing to do this (e.g. acidmonkey here) but others think going to court is too complicated so they seek out a solicitor and when they are quoted say £500, to start they think again. I explain it is possible to do it yourself via the SCC (e.g. even Gladstones manage it - albeit very poorly) and some people I know are now looking into it, but its just a confidence thing.

The op has been lucky by being on the ball, how many others would have just paid up?

Many ... I know of some.

how many would have moved and know nothing until they need a loan/mortgage/phone contract?

This is exactly what I tell everyone on the estates where I am involved. You play a dangerous game once you have that PCN issued, especially if you are a tenant and will definitely move within the next 6 years.

I think this scam will come down soon, just not sure how long it will take for enough people to wake up and help bring it down.

The_Slithy_Tove

safarmuk wrote: »

I think this scam will come down soon, just not sure how long it will take for enough people to wake up and help bring it down.

You'd like to think so. Unfortunately the politicians are going to be so self-absorbed in the dog's breakfast that is Brexit, that such trivial things as the wholesale abuse of the court process by their friends at Crapita (and others) will be swept under the carpet for years.

Loadsofchildren123

I completely agree.
However, to join the MA or landlord or freeholder as a party to proceedings issued by a PPC (so that a counterclaim can be made) costs £255 for the application fee. So the reality is most people won't want to do that.

It's wrong that the PPC can issue a claim for a £25 fee but the Defendant has to pay £255 to mark a very basic application. They should reduce all fees for the SCC.

The way round this is you wait until after the PPC claim is over, then issue a new claim against the others, which will only cost £25. You tell them in a LBC that this is what you are going to do (hopefully it will pressurise them into getting the pcn cancelled).

However, the reality is that defending the pcn claim is such a pain that most people won't want to then pursue new proceedings.

Fruitcake

safarmuk wrote: »

Yes, there is, if you are willing I will PM you my email address and you can use that or you can post your redacted IAS appeal and IAS responses here. Whichever you prefer.

I can assure you I am trustworthy and my sole reason for wishing to see your IAS appeal and the IAS response is that I want to see how the IAS (ludicrously) rebutted your Primacy of Contract argument (that should have won and I guess did indeed win in court). This is because whilst I wait for some cards to fall into place with the residents I am helping, I thought I might amuse myself by having some fun with the IAS myself and any examples of how to get them to tie themselves in unfortunate knots that they might regret later is very welcome

I can vouch that safarmuk is one of the good guys and can be trusted.

If anyone uses the IAS and receives an anonymous decision, they should ask for the name of the assessor that did the appeal and the names of all of the officials.

If they don't supply this upon request they are in breach of the ADR 2015 Act.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/542/pdfs/uksi_20150542_en.pdf

SCHEDULE 3 Regulation 9(4)

Requirements that a competent authority must be satisfied that the body meets ...

Transparency

5. The body makes the following information publicly available on its website in a clear and easily understandable manner, and provides, on request, this information to any person on a durable medium—
(a) its contact details, including postal address and e-mail address;
(b) a statement that it has been approved as an ADR entity by the relevant competent authority once this approval has been granted;
(c) its ADR officials, the method of their appointment and the duration of their appointment ...

Half_way

Another issue is that if residents make it hard for the MA then the MA will just sack the PPC or get rid come contract renewal and install another PPC, this is why its important to go for the MA.

There was mention on the pakring prankseter blog ( i think) a while back saying there could be a Data protection act breach issue if PPCs obtain RK data for those legitimately parked such as in own space cases.

SmellyMog

I'd suggest that what is needed in these PPC/MA/Freeholder cases is an unredacted copy of the contract between the PPC and whoever actually put pen to paper on the contract. Unfortunately, not as easy as it sounds, as I am discovering. If anyone is getting a kick back from the PPC's ticketing, then the last thing they want residents to know is what's in the contract. I'm no legal eagle, but I would think a claim of tortious interference against a MA is doomed if they can show they weren't the contracting party?

safarmuk

The way round this is you wait until after the PPC claim is over, then issue a new claim against the others, which will only cost £25. You tell them in a LBC that this is what you are going to do (hopefully it will pressurise them into getting the pcn cancelled).

Personally I think the real way round it is you need to simply raise a claim for breach of lease against the Freeholder in the SCC (£25 filing fee) and claim damages (e.g. £100/month the breach has occurred). You can add the Management Agent to this as well. Obviously you must first have shown you have tried to exhaust all other avenues to resolve the dispute (e.g a paper trail of the MA and Freeholder ignoring you or fobbing you off). Also you must be able to read and interpret your lease correctly.

It is the latter (interpreting your lease) that people struggle with and the former (building the paper trail) that people give up on too quickly. However, where I am working this is beginning to get more traction.

To give you an example I know people who have leases where they fail to understand even what the significance of "particulars", "demised property" and "demised rights" are. Thinking about it I might post some stuff here later and see if my interpretation of their lease is the same as some of the experts on here like LOC123 and Johnersh. That might give them some more comfort.

You'd like to think so. Unfortunately the politicians are going to be so self-absorbed in the dog's breakfast that is Brexit, that such trivial things as the wholesale abuse of the court process by their friends at Crapita (and others) will be swept under the carpet for years.

Don't be so sure, I think we will see something. The wheels of government (unfortunately) take time. I would suggest you write to your MP (and/or the candidates for your seat) and tell him/her about this little scam and maybe ask to see them at a surgery (after the election) or on the campaign trail (before the election) and ask them bluntly (if they don't already know) to find out on your behalf what is being done about this (if they don't know this last point would now have to be after the election as there are now no sitting MPs, just candidates).

Another issue is that if residents make it hard for the MA then the MA will just sack the PPC or get rid come contract renewal and install another PPC, this is why its important to go for the MA.

Normally I would agree, but some MAs are just so belligerent that it can take quite something to make them do the right thing. The MA and the Freeholder are definitely two avenues of pursuit but a lot of people lose heart after the first fob off as they don't understand what to do next. For examples some Freeholders and Management Agents just simply don't reply, to get them to do so you have to light a fire.

I'd suggest that what is needed in these PPC/MA/Freeholder cases is an unredacted copy of the contract between the PPC and whoever actually put pen to paper on the contract. Unfortunately, not as easy as it sounds, as I am discovering.

It's extremely difficult to obtain this information. There are various ways of trying but ultimately I think this whole residential parking thing will end up with either residents finally taking a Freeholder/MA to court and it going national or some kind of regulation coming in via the government.

Personally (and I know for some people this is not an option - like for me when I bought my first property) I would never, ever buy anything leasehold in the future. Never. Freeholders and MAs can just be a right pain.