Manager lying in order to Dismiss me

sangie595

Ps. One last tip. It may not help, but.... No matter what is said, avoid saying or implying that anyone is lying. Obfuscate. Go around as many houses as you need to. But don't say the manager is lying. You must have misheard the question. You don't recall that. Anything that avoids saying they are lying. Because if you survive the hearing, there is no going back to a relationship in which you have called someone a liar. If anything, flatter and brown nose! Whether it comes easily or not. Surviving the hearing is the only important thing, and however you do that is unimportant. Sell your grandmother if that gets you through it! Nothing else matters.

Kayalana99

sangie595 wrote: »

Ps. One last tip. It may not help, but.... No matter what is said, avoid saying or implying that anyone is lying. Obfuscate. Go around as many houses as you need to. But don't say the manager is lying. You must have misheard the question. You don't recall that. Anything that avoids saying they are lying. Because if you survive the hearing, there is no going back to a relationship in which you have called someone a liar. If anything, flatter and brown nose! Whether it comes easily or not. Surviving the hearing is the only important thing, and however you do that is unimportant. Sell your grandmother if that gets you through it! Nothing else matters.

I agree with not directly accusing the manager but you also can't admit you are in the wrong when you are not, saying you 'misheard' the question or trying to say that it was possible the question was asked is admitting they could be right and give them an opening.

Obviously keep a cool head and don't accuse the manager out right of lying, but anything but honestly here will only get you in more trouble. If you say anything they could say you were lying about they will use it to fuel the fire.

Please let us know how it goes

Paton147

I let you guys know how it goes, but its quite clear they are keen to just work their way through the process, tick the boxes then dismiss me.

I asked if I can have a union rep at the meeting and hes taken many days to reply, 'No'.

mac.d

I'm pretty sure that it's a employees right in law to have a union rep (or a fellow employee) at a disciplinary interview. Please someone correct me if that's wrong?

sangie595

Yes, it is a legal right to be represented by an accredited union representative.

motorguy

Kayalana99 wrote: »

I agree with not directly accusing the manager but you also can't admit you are in the wrong when you are not, saying you 'misheard' the question or trying to say that it was possible the question was asked is admitting they could be right and give them an opening.

Obviously keep a cool head and don't accuse the manager out right of lying, but anything but honestly here will only get you in more trouble. If you say anything they could say you were lying about they will use it to fuel the fire.

Please let us know how it goes

I wholly agree with this - i would not in any way be suggesting that i was asked the question but didnt answer it for whatever reason.

Masomnia

Paton147 wrote: »

I let you guys know how it goes, but its quite clear they are keen to just work their way through the process, tick the boxes then dismiss me.

I asked if I can have a union rep at the meeting and hes taken many days to reply, 'No'.

Just to be clear are we still talking about an investigation or the actual hearing, as an investigation you wouldn't necessarily have the right to be accompanied, but it may be in your company policy.

Keep that in writing for the appeal if it does come to that as it may be useful. Also all the previous invites with the different allegations, as that certainly does not reflect well on the manager.

If they are an employer who prides themselves on hiring ex-offenders then you had nothing to gain by lying but everything to lose as you know you could lose your job as a result; so why would you do it?

Totally agree with Sangie, accusing them of lying will definitely get you sacked. Put it down to a misunderstanding/confusion etc, and I would certainly be saying that you 'do not recall' being asked the question because saying to the manager 'you did not ask me that' will open you up to 'are you calling me a liar?' which you want to avoid.

The interview notes will not show that you were asked the question, so you have that on your side. Ultimately it is one word against another, and to fairly dismiss the employer will need to show 'reasonable belief' that you lied, ie on the balance of probabilities. So keep it factual, make no accusations, and focus on the fact that there is no evidence and you have been of good character whilst working for them.

Good luck.

Paton147

So I wrote a massive statement giving around 15 creditable, logical reasons why I didn't lie about a previous dismissal.

But... the meeting is in a few hours and I've decided to dramatically tone that down. Why show all my cards and hypothesis areas where there could be misunderstanding.

I'm going to ask them to give the basis for the accusation and focus on why I believe it to be false.

This is going to a disciplinary hearing anyway so I'm not spending 2 hours today fighting my cause alone.

jobbingmusician

OK, but take your written statement in with you. You don't have to reveal it all at the hearing, but it may be helpful to you in a stressful situation to have all your points in one document, so you can decide what to use if the meeting goes along various lines. Good luck!

Kayalana99

Masomnia wrote: »

If they are an employer who prides themselves on hiring ex-offenders then you had nothing to gain by lying but everything to lose as you know you could lose your job as a result; so why would you do it?

This is an excellent point actually, say you did lie for example, but as a company who prides themselves in employing ex-offenders, why is the manager concerned about share holders opinions and trying to get someone fired for something in his past?

The lie itself might be dismissial, but it would seem the manager has expressed other concerns and not just you not being truthful.

It may be an excellent point to bring up that you don't really understand why you are being pulled in because 1) you were never asked, but 2) even if you were asked, as a company who advertise they are happy to employ ex-offenders, would your background have meant you weren't hired? If you can turn it round slightly and leave them struggling to give you a good enough reason, it may work in your favour a bit more.


I do find it strange it wasn't on the application form though as they seem to be aware of ex-offenders and a lot of application forms are pretty standard to include this esp with big companies.