Parking ticket from G24

galboy

Hi guys,

I would really appreciate some advice. I recently parked In the car park for 'Office outlet' in Basildon on a Saturday evening. I was attending a function at the fire station that is about 25 metres away and as it was 20:10 at night I didn't realise that there were parking restrictions in place. I overstayed the 100 minute 'free' parking by 45 minutes and subsequently received a £100 contractual parking charge notice two weeks later. G24 have given me 14 days to respond and I will receive a 40% discount if I pay up by that date. If not I will have to pay the full amount of £100. If I choose to appeal the. I automatically waive my right to the lesser payment. I visited 'Office outlet' and explained the situation but they simply said that if I wasn't a customer then there was nothing that they could do.

I have read lots and lots on this forum so far and it's all a bit confusing. Most people seemed to have received these charges have actually purchased goods from the stores and have more of a cause than I do. So do I still ignore the charge notice? After all they haven't lost any monies by me parking there as they were closed for business at the time.

Redx

nobody will tell you to IGNORE the pcn (charge notice) because IGNORE has not been correct in england and wales since october 2012 !!

you ALWAYS APPEAL the initial pcn , in this case using the IPC template from the NEWBIES sticky thread , post #1

that thread tells people what to do, so there is no need to look at any other thread except that NEWBIES sticky thread

please read it

please follow the IPC advice in it

Coupon-mad

It's only G24 (no-one pays them here) but respond once as per the NEWBIES thread.

galboy

Thanks for the info guys. I'll respond with that template.

What should I expect to happen once I send my reply?

Quentin

galboy wrote: »

What should I expect to happen once I send my reply?

All set out in the newbies faq thread.


Your appeal will be rejected/debt passed to debt collectors (they have 6 years to chase you till they lose the right to take court action)


You ignore the DCs, and search for g24 to see you have little to worry about

galboy

So this was the email response I received after I appealed using the template in the 'newbies' thread.

We respond as follows :

1. In relation to your suggestion that your parking charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss we confirm we have obtained legal advice in this regard and have been advised that not only can our parking charges be justified on the basis that they are in line with the Independent Parking Committee's guidelines, and that they amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss, but they are likely to amount to liquidated damages (where the issue of pre-estimate of loss is not relevant). This is because the Court’s position is that where the parties to a contract agree to fix the amount which is to be paid by way of damages in the event of a breach of contract - which is the basis of the contract detailed on our signage - a sum stipulated in this way (particularly in circumstances where there is difficulty in calculating a precise estimation) is classed as liquidated damages. Either way, our parking charges are fully enforceable and no not amount to a “penalty”. You should also be aware that in accordance with the case of Robophone Facilities v Blank the onus of proving that an amount claimed is a penalty, rather than liquidated damages, is upon you (as the party against whom the parking charge is claimed);

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS). In order to appeal the IAS will need your parking charge number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued. Appeals must be submitted to the IAS within 21 days of the date of this letter.

3. Again, you do not specify in which way you allege we not have authority to issue charges over the land where the car park is located. However, we can assure you that the parking management at the car park where you received a parking charge has been contracted to us. Again, we are able to confirm that we have been successfully audited by an independent assessor on behalf of the Independent Parking Committee.

The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("the Act), (Schedule 4), which governs parking on private land, provides a definition for "parking charge" and "adequate notice" of such private parking charges. The relevant sections of Schedule 4 to the Act state :

“parking charge”

(a) in the case of a relevant obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract, means a sum in the nature of a fee or charge, and

(b) in the case of a relevant obligation arising as a result of a trespass or other tort, means a sum in the nature of damages ...

... “relevant obligation” means
(a) an obligation arising under the terms of a relevant contract; or
(b) an obligation arising, in any circumstances where there is no relevant contract, as a result of a trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle on the relevant land; ...

... The reference in the definition of “parking charge” to a sum in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles

(when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).
For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2) “adequate notice” means notice given by:
... (b) ... the display of one or more notices which
(i) specify the sum as the charge for unauthorised parking; and
(ii) are adequate to bring the charge to the notice of drivers who park vehicles on the relevant land".

In this instance a parking charge has been issued based on the fact that the driver of your vehicle entered into a contract with us (by the act of parking the vehicle) and our signage (which states the terms and conditions of parking) having been clearly displayed in the car park.

The Act permits parking charges to be rendered on private land, and the case of Parking Eye Limited v Somerfield Stores Limited [2012] EWCA Civ 1338 (Court of Appeal) held that (taking into account inflation) the parking company was entitled to claim a parking charge of a similar amount to that which we have charged, and therefore your reference to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is not of any relevance in the context of this parking charge.

You should also be aware that the amount of our parking charges accords within recommendations by our Trade Associations.

We operate the car park in accordance with the BPA/AOS guidlines, I refer you to section 7.1.

"7.1 If you do not own the land on which you are carrying out parking management, you must have the written authorisation of the landowner (or their appointed agent) before you can start operating on the land in question. The authorisation must give you the authority to carry out all the aspects of the management and enforcement of the site that you are responsible for. In particular, it must say that the landowner requires you to keep to the Code of Practice, and that you have the authority to pursue outstanding parking charges, through the courts if necessary."

The photographs provide evidence of the parking event that occurred which show that the driver breached the terms and conditions of parking which were clearly displayed on the signage in the car park. If you wish to receive further documentation, these will be supplied once you make a proper request under the Data Protection Act. The fact that such documentation might be used in any Court proceedings is not a legitimate way to circumvent the Data Protection Act.

Our claim is not based on trespass, but on a breach of contract.

We have taken legal advice and we have been advised that not only can our parking charges be justified on the basis that they amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss but are likely to amount to "liquidated damages". This is because the Court's position is that where the parties to a contract agree to fix the amount which is to be paid by way of damages in the event of a breach of contract - which is the basis of the contract detailed on our signage - a sum stipulated in this way (particularly in circumstances where there is difficulty in calculating a precise estimation) is likely to be classed as liquidated damages. Either way, our parking charges are fully enforceable and do not amount to a "penalty". You should also be aware that in accordance with the case of Robophone Facilities v Blank the onus of proving that an amount claimed is a penalty, rather than liquidated damages, is upon you (as the party against whom the parking charge is claimed).

We confirm that it is not necessary for us to provide you with a breakdown of our parking charges at this time. That information is confidential, but is available and will be provided to the Court in the course of Court proceedings, if necessary, and if payment has not been made before then.

The terms and conditions of the car park are displayed in prominent locations throughout the car park. Any vehicle found in contravention of these terms and conditions is subject to a Contractual Parking Charge Notice. Vehicles entering and exiting the car park are monitored and details of their registration number and time of entry/exit are recorded. Your vehicle was logged entering the car park on the 08 Apr 2017 at 20:10 and exiting 08 Apr 2017 at 22:35. Photographic evidence of the breach of contractual term is provided on your Contractual Parking Charge Notice.

There are sufficient signs at the entrance to and in prominent locations throughout the car park displaying the terms and conditions. Your are welcome to revisit the site to view the signage, we advise you to adhere to the terms and conditions of parking when visit the site.
Our signage complies with the Independent Parking Committee's Approved Operator Scheme.

A copy of our signage will be provided in any Court proceedings and a copy of our terms and conditions is clearly stated on the Notice to Keeper you have received.

You have stated that you were not the driver of the vehicle at the date and time of the breach of the contractual terms of the car park, however you have failed to inform us who was.

Judge Ackroyd, 2008, Oldham Court, Combined Parking Solutions versus Mr Stephen Thomas, in the case where Mr Thomas claimed not to be the driver, but did not state who was, ruled that on the balance of probability he was the driver and ordered the Charge to be paid plus additional court costs.

If, at the end of the period of 28 days (beginning with the day after the date on which this correspondence is issued), you have not complied with the above, then we have the right to take recovery action against you.

G24 Ltd are approved by the DVLA (via the Independent Parking Committee) to receive your personal information. Furthermore, we are registered as a Data Controller with the Information Commissioner's Office. Accordingly, your personal data has been lawfully obtained and is handled by us in the strictest confidence. G24 Ltd are approved by the DVLA (via the Independent Parking Committee) to receive your personal information. We act completely in accordance with the relevant Regulations and although we appreciate that no-one ever wishes to receive a Contractual Parking Charge Notice, we regret to say that in this instance it is clear that a breach of contractual term has occurred and payment is still required from you.

As we have extensively investigated this Contractual Parking Charge Notice and provided you with the results of our investigation, no further investigation will be undertaken. Any further correspondence will not receive a response, the options below are still open to you.

You now have one of the following options available to you:

1. Pay the outstanding Parking Charge. Payment of your Contractual Parking Charge Notice can be made via the payment line: 0333 733 3000 or by sending a cheque or postal order to G24 Limited, PO Box 3320, Gerrards Cross, Buckinghamshire, SL9 8WT.

2. If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to The Independent Appeals Service), The Independent Appeals Service provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the The Independent Appeals Service Standard Appeals Service providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of your first rejection.

3. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies owed to us via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you.

Customer Services
G24 Ltd


So what should I do now? Sit and wait for the debt collector letters to arrive?

Redx

yes, wait for and file the debt collector letters (IGNORE them)

G24 have 6 years to try an MCOL court claim

ideally, you want a landholder cancellation

beamerguy

What a timewasting junk letter, they must have been up all night writing that or maybe it was the tea lady

"As you have complied with our internal appeals procedure you may use, and we will engage with, the The Independent Appeals Service Standard Appeals Service"

Of course they will engage with the IAS, probably over a pint where they can chuckle over the sham run by Gladstones

As Redx says above, best advice ...... I'm sure you have better things to do than read this garbage

galboy

Thanks guys

Butterflynest465

Hi has anything happened with this? I’ve just got one through I over stayed by 13 minutes I think it’s ridiculous that they are wanting me to pay £100! I’ve tried to appeal it but there having none of it! Just wondering what happens when you don’t pay! Thanks x

Coupon-mad

Butterflynest465 wrote: »

Hi has anything happened with this? I’ve just got one through I over stayed by 13 minutes I think it’s ridiculous that they are wanting me to pay £100! I’ve tried to appeal it but there having none of it! Just wondering what happens when you don’t pay! Thanks x

What did you learn about what happens, when you read 'NEWBIES PLEASE READ THESE FAQS FIRST'? It is at the top of the forum, tells you about IPC firms and the first thing linked there is a thread all about successfully complaining to the retailer Store Manager. What happened when you did?

Rhetorical questions, - NO answers here please, it's not your thread.

If unsure how to find the NEWBIES FAQS thread at the top, see my signature below this reply.