Add your feedback on energy supplier Powershop

System

fewkeste wrote: »

@mjtko You make some interesting points. I like the idea of 'bagging the bargain early' with Future Packs - especially as the £50 maximum doesn't cover my monthly spend even in the summer months. I will need to purchase Future Packs AND in-month special packs to cover/top up my monthly consumption.

When interest rates are as low as they are at the moment, I'm quite relaxed about purchasing power ahead of time to get a deal. I might worry that if I left it to in-month special packs to fund my use, there would always be a concern that insufficient special pack value would be available when required. That means I might have to use Standard Power Top Up packs at the poor value they represent.

I must admit I hadn't considered the viewpoint that Future Pack buyers are effectively subsidising customers who only purchase in-month special packs - it's a valid observation. For me it's about 'discount certainty'. Rather like electric car owners who might have range anxiety, I don't want to have 'discount power pack anxiety':)

If it is any comfort, many of our Southern Hemisphere cousins are as confused as we seem to be. The consensus seems to be that to get best value, Winter packs need to be purchased by September (March - down under) and then for the Spring, Summer and Autumn months trickle along with the monthly specials. That said, a lot of the posters clearly have PV Solar. I think that I will stick with my present plan of buying sufficient Future Packs in line with my past monthly consumption (but even that takes a bit of working out).

Powershop_UK

Hi there all,

Good discussion on strategies above. Hope we can help clarify things.
Right now our goal is that you don’t have to purchase future packs if you don’t want to. Our goal is to make the in-month discounts, and the future packs roughly equivalent. There will also be a couple of rather large specials in the winter to look out for too.

Next year we'd like to make the discounts for future packs significantly more punchy than the in month packs. We haven't done this so far due to the requirement to list our achievable rates on the Tariff Information Label. (for those of you who are customers it's listed in your account at https://secure.powershop.co.uk/rates)

We are new to the market and we have a completely different way of buying energy. We didn't want to prevent customers from achieving our lowest published rate if they do not have the cash on hand to invest in future packs.

For mjtko: There isn't any cross subsidy, it was a decision that's been made for the sake of transparency, and fairness in the Tariff Information label. This may change as OFGEM introduces new ways to quote innovative tariffs like ours, and these new methods become industry standard.

Hope this helps. Glad to hear some of you are enjoying it!

- Powershop Pricing Team

System

Powershop_UK wrote: »

Hi there all,

Good discussion on strategies above. Hope we can help clarify things.
Right now our goal is that you don’t have to purchase future packs if you don’t want to. Our goal is to make the in-month discounts, and the future packs roughly equivalent. There will also be a couple of rather large specials in the winter to look out for too.

Next year we'd like to make the discounts for future packs significantly more punchy than the in month packs. We haven't done this so far due to the requirement to list our achievable rates on the Tariff Information Label. (for those of you who are customers it's listed in your account at https://secure.powershop.co.uk/rates)

We are new to the market and we have a completely different way of buying energy. We didn't want to prevent customers from achieving our lowest published rate if they do not have the cash on hand to invest in future packs.

For mjtko: There isn't any cross subsidy, it was a decision that's been made for the sake of transparency, and fairness in the Tariff Information label. This may change as OFGEM introduces new ways to quote innovative tariffs like ours, and these new methods become industry standard.

Hope this helps. Glad to hear some of you are enjoying it!

- Powershop Pricing Team

If you want more customers, then you are going to have to offer more guarantees in your written terms and conditions. Contractually, aims, goals etc are meaningless. You may have the very best of intentions; however, Ofgem requires suppliers to offer tariffs that are Simpler, Clearer, and Fairer.

Simpler - reducing the complexity of tariffs

Clearer - improving the quality of the information provided

Fairer -

As you can tell, I am still struggling with your offer; that said, I have bought into it so far. I have though asked Ofgem to clarify the position of a wholly-owned subsidiary operation re the consumer levy protection if the subsidiary becomes insolvent. I accept that Npower as the owner of PS will be still be able to provide energy; however, it is less than clear that subsidiaries without their own Supply Licence are covered by Ofgem’s insolvency rules. There is nothing in your ts and cos to cover this eventuality. Logically, Npower should takeover full responsibility not Ofgem but I can find no rules or precedents.

Sorry if the above is a bit harsh but the rules of the game and the playing field already exist. I admire you for what you are trying to do, but I confess that uncertainty about what to buy and when is making me look again at more conventional electricity supply options. More importantly, I need 100% confidence that my credit is protected in the event that the subsidiary goes into liquidation.

mjtko

Thanks for the clarifications. I'll probably end up buying a few future packs and all the special packs, and certainly won't worry as much about future packs as I was!

I can however still imagine a situation where I "lose out": if the algorithm underestimates my usage and I'm not offered sufficiently large special packs. Conversely, if the algorithm overestimates my usage, then I'm likely to be offered more power at larger discounts. However, I suspect that, towards the end of the billing year, the offers received will more or less cancel out any variance over the preceding 12 months -- as more data on usage is received, the algorithm can converge towards the ideal 20%-ish-over-the-year discount that is being aimed for. That feels like a fairly carefully constructed customer retention policy.

The number of variables at play makes this all fairly difficult to comprehend. I *think* I'm on a decent deal, but it's extremely hard to know for sure (much harder than, for example, a straight out-and-out 12 month fix).

I understand Powershop is attempting a new approach in a pretty stagnant market and it's a USP for sure. However, the cognitive overhead (for some of us moneysavers at least!) is pretty high!

Powershop_UK

Hi Hengus,

Thanks for the reply.

Obviously, we can give you our assurances that as a wholly owned subsidiary your credit will be covered by our parent company. We know you aren't looking just for assurances though. We were actually just discussing the best legal area to address your concerns at the next point our documentation is updated. As always thanks for the feedback. We appreciate your diligence.

Hi mjtko,

There's definitely a balance we are trying to strike between giving enough detail to you "moneysavers" and the general population of customers who we don't want to over burden with too much information. That's why we introduced the "Promise" for the first 12 months which is still a very competitive rate in most regions to give a backstop of reassurance that you'll get at very least that or we'll make good the difference.

You are correct that giving a customers an incentive to use less by instantly and clearly showing changes in how long their purchased Powerpacks will last is a very core part of the idea.

Have a good evening.

- Powershop Pricing Team

Jonmenzies

Sorry but I think life is too short. We are all busy and Powershop are making a simple thing too complicated.

Now I have a head for figures, also I have worked at British Gas and Scottish Power when I was in my 20's so know energy supply fairly well but this model is too complex and if you stop buying the packs (because you get bored of it all and actually have other things to do) then the only people to gain is Powershop.

Sorry, life it too short to be faffing about buying packs of cheap electric.

System

Jonmenzies wrote: »

Sorry but I think life is too short. We are all busy and Powershop are making a simple thing too complicated.

Now I have a head for figures, also I have worked at British Gas and Scottish Power when I was in my 20's so know energy supply fairly well but this model is too complex and if you stop buying the packs (because you get bored of it all and actually have other things to do) then the only people to gain is Powershop.

Sorry, life it too short to be faffing about buying packs of cheap electric.

In fairness to Powershop, their first year Easy Saver Promise is equivalent to a very competitive one year fixed deal and you do not have to buy any power packs to get it. That said, unlike other fixed deals, you would pay the standard variable rate for a year and then get a credit added to your account.

fewkeste

Jonmenzies wrote: »

Sorry but I think life is too short. We are all busy and Powershop are making a simple thing too complicated.

Now I have a head for figures, also I have worked at British Gas and Scottish Power when I was in my 20's so know energy supply fairly well but this model is too complex and if you stop buying the packs (because you get bored of it all and actually have other things to do) then the only people to gain is Powershop.

Sorry, life it too short to be faffing about buying packs of cheap electric.

I completely understand your viewpoint on this - but it's not that bad. When someone first sees or hears about the Powershop model it seems incredibly complicated and involved. In reality it is different from the 'normal' way things have been done but once you start using the system and figure out how to optimise your buying strategy for your life/consumption profile it's actually quite straightforward really.

Even though someone might have a laptop/pc to get on the website I recommend you download the app as well. The Android app (I can't speak about the Apple app) displays the same information as the website but in some respects in a better clearer way.

I would say that nobody should join and decide to 'do nothing' regarding buying Special Packs and Future Packs as that would lead to quite expensive electricity costs.

I know that after I went live on PS but before my online account went live I was trying to grasp the concept of the different Powerpacks but once you have an online account it begins to make more sense. Yes you have to put in a bit of work to get up to speed at first, but once you understand how things work it's quite straightforward.

The only thing that confused me was the naming of the Future Packs. You would think that a Future Pack named 'November' would cover your consumption mostly in - November. But No! - it covers the billing period that ENDS in November - i.e. most of October's consumption.

Once I'd grasped that Future Packs are named after the month the bill becomes due rather than the consumption month they cover then I understood.

In summary I agree it's confusing to newbies but if you put a little time and effort in it's quite easy to use. If you're a 'hands-off' type of person who doesn't really worry or care about their energy bill then maybe Powershop is not right for you.

A crude test might be - do you keep records of meter readings, consumption, past bills etc? If you do, then you'll probably do just fine with Powershop. If you don't then think carefully and read this thread and explore their website. It's not difficult to grasp - you just have to be bothered.:)

Jonmenzies

fewkeste wrote: »

I completely understand your viewpoint on this - but it's not that bad. When someone first sees or hears about the Powershop model it seems incredibly complicated and involved. In reality it is different from the 'normal' way things have been done but once you start using the system and figure out how to optimise your buying strategy for your life/consumption profile it's actually quite straightforward really.

Even though someone might have a laptop/pc to get on the website I recommend you download the app as well. The Android app (I can't speak about the Apple app) displays the same information as the website but in some respects in a better clearer way.

I would say that nobody should join and decide to 'do nothing' regarding buying Special Packs and Future Packs as that would lead to quite expensive electricity costs.

I know that after I went live on PS but before my online account went live I was trying to grasp the concept of the different Powerpacks but once you have an online account it begins to make more sense. Yes you have to put in a bit of work to get up to speed at first, but once you understand how things work it's quite straightforward.

The only thing that confused me was the naming of the Future Packs. You would think that a Future Pack named 'November' would cover your consumption mostly in - November. But No! - it covers the billing period that ENDS in November - i.e. most of October's consumption.

Once I'd grasped that Future Packs are named after the month the bill becomes due rather than the consumption month they cover then I understood.

In summary I agree it's confusing to newbies but if you put a little time and effort in it's quite easy to use. If you're a 'hands-off' type of person who doesn't really worry or care about their energy bill then maybe Powershop is not right for you.

A crude test might be - do you keep records of meter readings, consumption, past bills etc? If you do, then you'll probably do just fine with Powershop. If you don't then think carefully and read this thread and explore their website. It's not difficult to grasp - you just have to be bothered.:)

Hiya. Thanks very much for such a detailed reply. You have just confirmed that IT IS too complicated. Thanks again. :-)

fewkeste

Powershop_UK wrote: »

Good discussion on strategies above. Hope we can help clarify things.
Right now our goal is that you don’t have to purchase future packs if you don’t want to. Our goal is to make the in-month discounts, and the future packs roughly equivalent. There will also be a couple of rather large specials in the winter to look out for too.

@Powershop UK

Does this mean that for example in October you will offer Special Packs that will offer approximately the same 23.5% discount as the November Future Packs? (Given the November Future Packs predominantly cover October's consumption.)

Also, if a customer has purchased Future Packs for a given period, will they still be offered Special Packs covering that same time period with a similar % discount and of a comparable magnitude to other customers with a similar annual consumption who have NOT bought Future Packs for the same relevant period?