MPC / VCS/ Excel??

Loadsofchildren123

well I think you have a proper defence here.
The sign says nothing about visitors being able to park with a permit or how to get a permit.
The company relies on the sign to say that once you read it and parked, you entered into a contract with them, and the terms of the contract are on the sign. So if there is nothing saying that visitors (ie non-permit-holders) must obtain permits and how, then that isn't part of the contract.
The contract terms have to be clear and unambiguous. Any ambiguity, under Consumer Law, has to be resolved in the consumer's (ie your) favour. These aren't clear or unambiguous and you rely on that and say that the finding should be in your favour about your interpretation of the sign.
This is not because English isn't your first language, and I wouldn't emphasise that too much in any defence. It wouldn't be clear to a native speaker either.

Loadsofchildren123

Could you also tell us how the visitor bays are marked out? I know the signs say nothing but is there any means of obtaining a visitor permit? E.g. A visitor/site office?

Threesha66

Hi,


Thank you for all the replies.


Well as I said there is nothing on the signage regarding to visitor parking neither any information about these permits only permit holder only and the ways of payment. On whole site there are only flats. I went to walk around to look for somebody I can speak to about this PCN but there is no office only flats and these signs all around. There are numbered bays that relates to each flat and then there are bays with V on it and they are mixed together around the site.

Threesha66

If I have time I can make some photos on Friday of the site to see it clearly also I will ask my friend to give me copies of his tenant agreement if there is anything mentioned about this

Loadsofchildren123

Good. Take photos of these bays and do a hand drawn plan showing the flats, numbered bays and V bays. This demonstrates visitors are allowed and if visitors require permits then there must be a method of getting one. Any contract which might be created by the signage is "frustrated" by the impossibility of obtaining a permit. In other words the contract is impossible for you to perform and is therefore cancelled.

Loadsofchildren123

This PPC is in the IPC. They offer their own appeal and then another appeal to IAS which they claim is independent.
Advice on here is do the direct appeal (they will reject it) but not the IAS appeal after that because it is not independent or transparent.

I believe the advice is also not to identify yourself as driver but as registered keeper. The aim of leaving it until later to appeal is the hope they will forget to serve a Notice to Keeper.

If it gets to court I think that is irrelevant and you should defend as driver on these points that have already been highlighted -no contract (it says nothing about visitors, its terms are unclear and the signss are incapable of forming a contract and/or are void for uncertainty) or if there was a contract it has been frustrated because it is impossible as a Visitor to obtain a permit, even though visitors are clearly allowed as there are clearly marked V spaces.

Threesha66

I don't know if a new person that move to these flats has to ask for one from landowner or how they get it I don't know. All I know is that my friend has one for himself which is normal to show he can park on his own numbered bay. I thought if you park on visitor bay you don't have to hold anything as you don't take any space or numbered bay for particular flat so I don't understand why they require permits for them as well. I know lots of people might park there even if they don't visit anyone and just walk away but if the company want to run this car park they should find normal solutions.

Threesha66

Ok So I understand I will leave this for a while and then send appeal directly to IAS? or what appeal company? I received a letter from them they said it is NTD but in the letter there is only respond to my appeal and that they are rejecting it because of the clear signs that say permit holders only. Also they again mentioned payment terms and that I will pay £60 if I make payment until 28th April.

Loadsofchildren123

OK so you have already done the first line appeal.
The next appeal is to IAS but people on here say it's not worth it because they have no independence and won't find in your favour anyway.
The general advice is now to wait. Before they issue proceedings you will receive various debt collector letters and letters which seem to come from solicitors but are really from debt collectors. IGNORE THESE. Only respond when there is a solicitor's letter headed with "Letter Before Claim", "Letter Before Proceedings" or "Letter Before County Court Claim". Then you respond to that with a summary of your defence points.


They will then either go away or they will issue a claim and you will defend it. The forum will help you, as long as you put in some work of your own by reading the information that is in the Newbies thread. I know it is hard for you as a non English speaker, but the regular forum users will try to help you.

Loadsofchildren123

Make sure you gather evidence now - go back and take photos of those visitor bays and make a plan showing where all the flats are and the parking (and showing there is no visitor/site office where permits can be obtained).