the snap general election thread

Thrugelmir

Joeskeppi wrote: »

Is it just me that agrees and disagrees with bits of both labour and conservative? I dont understand how people become so polar about this stuff. If everyone left ill founded loyalty behind maybe democracy would work?

Democracy does work. As despite what politicians may say. External forces reign in their ability to make the changes that they propose. Plenty of checks and balances exist.

CKhalvashi

Mortgagefreeman wrote: »

confused.com

A vote for a party that represents my views means voting against a (most the time) very good Conservative MP, who generally serves the constituency well.

As I've already effectively been told that voting for that MP is a clear sign I'd be voting to let Theresa May do whatever she wants, I cannot in good faith vote for him, therefore will choose to vote for someone else. This has put the Conservatives straight out of the running in my voting thoughts.

"The devil" in this case is Theresa May.

Surely that wasn't worded in a way that you couldn't understand? I've just had the wording checked by someone off the forum who knew exactly what I meant straight away.

CKhalvashi

Joeskeppi wrote: »

Is it just me that agrees and disagrees with bits of both labour and conservative? I dont understand how people become so polar about this stuff. If everyone left ill founded loyalty behind maybe democracy would work?

No, not really, there are many in that position it would seem.

The only advice that can be given in this situation is to go with who you feel is best for you, which can also be pretty conflicting in this one.

If you earn more than £80k, probably you'd look at Conservative, if you earn less than £80k, probably you'd look at Labour.

On the other hand, if you own a home or have other assets above £100k (which would affect many more earning more than £80k than below) then you're in a position where they're both as bad as each other, and you're probably best off voting Lib Dem.

Then we have the 'Assets over £100k but retired' grouping (traditionally Conservative), who the Tories have gone against in this election. When it comes to that, it'll probably be either Labour or Lib Dem, depending on the EU outlook held by that person, but may (and probably is more likely to be) that no vote will be cast by that person.

I've already publicly stated that I think the polls will be out by some way (not necessarily on the polling, but much more likely on the weighting), and the manifesto releases go part of the way towards showing that's likely to be right.

Fella

Joeskeppi wrote: »

Is it just me that agrees and disagrees with bits of both labour and conservative? I dont understand how people become so polar about this stuff. If everyone left ill founded loyalty behind maybe democracy would work?

I doubt it is.

Personally I disagree with everything Corbyn says & a fair amount of what May says.

Corbyn is just a nasty egomaniac. May is a mediocre at best Tory who is extremely lucky in her opposition. Her opponents are without exception dreadful. Obviously she is the lesser of two evils but that's not saying much.

System

CKhalvashi wrote: »

If you earn more than £80k, probably you'd look at Conservative, if you earn less than £80k, probably you'd look at Labour.

I'm really torn on this one. 50% of me thinks that there's people doing important jobs for poop money and it's ok to subsidise them. And part of e thinks people who have rare skills or work incredibly hard shouldn't need to subside others. It's a nightmare.

Thrugelmir

CKhalvashi wrote: »

If you earn more than £80k, probably you'd look at Conservative, if you earn less than £80k, probably you'd look at Labour.

Not as straightforward as that. Labour's manifesto could have been written 50 years ago. The result now will be the same as it was then. I'd never ever vote communist. As the consequences ultimately could be far worse than the initial pledges.

michaels

Arklight wrote: »

Why does the Right continually conflate offering decent public services with "promising everything"?

The UK is set to have the lowest public spending of any major economy, lower even than the United States.

Why can all of Europe have trains that run on time, enough police officers and ambulances to show up to a 999 call, higher education that isn't funded by clobbering people barely out of their teens with mortgage sizes levels of debt, and a decent, dignified health and care provision.

Why are the countries on our doorstep able to do that, have been doing that for years, and have no plans to stop, but 30 miles over the English Channel it's pie in the sky fantasy economics?

http://www.poverty.ac.uk/articles-government-cuts-international-comparisons-public-spending-whats-new/uk-heading-bottom-place

Is that the same uk where the tax take as a proportion of gdp is at an all time record high but still not nearly enough to cover govt expenditure?

And this despite large parts of the economy that are part of public spending in other countries such as water supply being excluded from public expenditure here?

BobQ

Joeskeppi wrote: »

Is it just me that agrees and disagrees with bits of both labour and conservative? I dont understand how people become so polar about this stuff. If everyone left ill founded loyalty behind maybe democracy would work?

No I do too.

I see the Tory manifesto as containing almost all the right words in an aspirational sense but very little detail, just lots of generalisations. I also find it difficult to treat the policies seriously since I cannot understand how they have suddenly converted to an apparently liberal agenda unless it is a cynical appeal for votes. But the words do seem plausible most of the time.

I see the Labour manifesto as having more detail and containing many policies I can agree with plus a number that seem to appeal to a narrow section of the electorate. But the policies seem plausible until you remember the motley crew who would be implementing them.

May is the latest in a long line of mediocre Tory leaders who only looks credible because of being stood alongside Corbyn an even more mediocre leader, and the bland Lib Dem leader. Our politicians really are a disappointing lot.

The result seems not to be in doubt

System

Fair enough.

I also find the bashing of individuals a bit odd.

Tory fans who bash Diane Abbot are simultaneously backing Gove or Boris Johnson. Let's be honest politics is full of total nobs on all sides. I find it bonkers.

CKhalvashi

Joeskeppi wrote: »

Fair enough.

I also find the bashing of individuals a bit odd.

Tory fans who bash Diane Abbot are simultaneously backing Gove or Boris Johnson. Let's be honest politics is full of total nobs on all sides. I find it bonkers.

Actually, I completely agree with you here.

I have pulled up discrepancies in the voting history of my MP on here, however I have also said on here that overall he is a good MP.

I don't like Theresa May, and don't think a lot of Jeremy Corbyn, however I think that Corbyn has many more strengths in this than May. I will be honest also and say I'm not a huge fan of Tin Farron either, however think the Green co-leaders (even though I won't be voting for them and get fully that they don't have a chance) are the strongest candidates for leadership we have.

I won't, however, go throwing insults around for the sake of it, which is what many Tory voters are doing.