the snap general election thread

BobQ

westernpromise wrote: »

No they won't. The EU will be blamed and the Tories re-elected for trying, where Labour and the LibDems would have rolled over.

I disagree, people are fickle. If the economy tanks because of Brexit the Conservatives will be blamed once it impacts on the lives of real people. Those in the remain camp will not be forgiving, those who voted leave will think they were sold a pup.

Someone with charisma like Cameron might have got away with it, but May will be blamed. That said if the economy does well, May will get the credit and probably rule for 15 years.

westernpromise

BobQ wrote: »

Those in the remain camp will not be forgiving, those who voted leave will think they were sold a pup.

But they were not sold it by the Conservatives. May was a Remainer.

markharding557

BobQ wrote: »

I think the bigger question is after the next election why would any of these people want the job? Of the more moderate and sensible possibilities some have left Parliament, some will lose their seats, and those that remain will look at the membership and the remaining shadow cabinet, with Len McC in the wings and ask why should they bother.

Look on the bright side after this Corbyn charade is over Labour will be so low that the only way is up, a long way up and they really need to get rid of that politically correct nonsense of using discrimination in their Mp selections.

Moby

Filo25 wrote: »

The polling on the membership is interesting, most of the full members who have been in the party since pre-2015 apparently do not support Corbyn, it was the explosion of membership and "supporters" who joined around the time of that leadership election who completely changed the result.

Ed Miliband changed the rules opening up the leadership election to the full membership and of course the new members were allowed to join for a paltry sum. Corbyn was allowed on the ballot to 'extend the debate'. No one ever thought he'd win though. Then the new rules resulted in the surge of new member 'entryists' took place with him as their focus. All the work that Kinnock had done to detoxify Labour from militant (Derek Hatton) types in the early 80's was destroyed.:mad:

Many of the new members are often from disaffected fringe groups of the militant left. To be fair Corbyn has energised some people who don't like the 'system' generally but are not generally activists. Many people I know are Corbynites. Some are 'dumb' but many are not . They are people who hate the daily mail view of the world, are highly suspicious of the media and are highly aware that Britain is a class ridden society. The problem for Labour is that the very things that make them more electable are the very same things that make the party part of the establishment that such people are highly suspicious of.

chris_m

Moby wrote: »

Ed Miliband changed the rules opening up the leadership election to the full membership and of course the new members were allowed to join for a paltry sum. Corbyn was allowed on the ballot to 'extend the debate'. No one ever thought he'd win though.

The non-Labour supporters with £3 to spare thought it was Christmas come early, however - especially when their votes helped to eliminate the more capable contenders.

Moby

The succession went to the wrong Miliband and it was downhill all the way from there.

gfplux

michaels wrote: »

So for example we could have higher taxes and us them to subsidise train fares and trqin driver wages. Problem is that typically train commuters and train drivers earn more than average and taxpayers less so it will be regresive - and is thus typically a Labour policy aim.

Perhaps those higher taxes (from Business and tax payers) would also pay for more funding towards infrastructure, NHS, Education, policing, etc, etc.
Frankly I am not advocating any policy's but trying to understand "where the money (tax take) goes"
With the help of some posters I now understand as you should also see, that Britain has LESS money to spend on society than FRANCE and Germany because they take in less tax from Ordinary workers AND business.
That is why the French and German governments have so much MORE money to spend on infrastructure, HEALTH, Education, security, etc, etc.

gfplux

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Why is London France's largest 7th City? Tax an the cost of employing people being a major consideration perhaps.

GDP comparisons aren't meaningful. If the UK taxed North Sea oil and gas heavily. There would be no production or future exploration. France benefits hugely from overseas tourism more than any other country in the world.

It is well known in business that FRANCE has a huge amount of red tape and it is easy to set up a business in the U.K.
However I don't know why there are so many French in London but employment is a major driver. Meaning the French have skills that are NEEDED in London.

"GDP comparisons aren't meaningful" do we now come full circle and have to ask "where does the money go"

You are quite right France is very attractive to tourists. It is easily accessed from any of 27 EU Country's as well as Non EU Country's.

antrobus

BobQ wrote: »

I think the bigger question is after the next election why would any of these people want the job? Of the more moderate and sensible possibilities some have left Parliament, some will lose their seats, and those that remain will look at the membership and the remaining shadow cabinet, with Len McC in the wings and ask why should they bother.

You'd have to ask them.

But I get the distinct impression that David M isn't that interested.:)

Filo25

Assuming the Labour party gets beaten as badly as we all expect in the next election, the first key question will be whether Corbyn will step down as leader.

No matter how bad the loss is, I do not see that happening unless he thinks the new split of MPs will leave at least 15% of them supporting a Hard Left candidate in a future leadership election, so he will try to hold on until the NEC in the autumn to see if they can change the rules to lower that threshold to 5%.

If that happens Idon't see any choice but for the PLP to launch another leadership challenge, even knowing that will be an uphill struggle with the current makeup of the party membership. If Corbyn were to win that leadership election again, I really do see a fair possibility of the party splitting even though that would be hugely electorally damaging under FPTP.