the snap general election thread

steampowered

economic wrote: »

whatever happens with taxes i will do whatever i can to minimise the effect on me. theres no way i want to pay taxes to help others. i am self interested just like everyone else is. and i really dont care if you think i am a bad person.

If what you say is true - then yes, you are a bad person.

You are wrong to say that "everyone else is". Most people are self-interested yes, but most people recognise we are part of a larger society and are very happy to help their fellow human beings.

you talk about the rich and poor. i dont fall into either of these categories. i am part of tjhe middle class. the class that gets taxed the most.

This is a key point and fundamental to the tax debate. The higher earning parts of the middle class pay the highest rates of tax, because they pay income tax.

The super rich tend to pay lower rates of tax; because they do not pay income tax - it is much more likely to be capital gains tax or corporation tax (with money then withdrawn offshore to avoid paying income tax on dividends).

The obvious conclusion to my mind is to leave income tax alone but increase other types of tax, to resolve the rather strange situation where the richest pay less than those in the middle.

michaels

Herzlos wrote: »

There's certainly some sticker shock when you see your payslips, but to be honest I don't think it's as bad as people claim (though I've not been up there that long). For one, there's the upper NI threshold which means at ~45k you're going from paying 31% to 40%. Does that extra 9% really stop you from trying to earn more?

I find these days I'm more annoyed by waste and corruption than other people getting stuff for free. Sure a small minority of them are abusing the system but most need it. Sure the NHS (particularly in England) is on it's knees. But I don't think a "me first" approach is going to do anything other than make it worse.

Particularly when it comes to social care and public services, the old adage "a stitch in time saves nine" is still perfectly valid.

Of course, I don't like paying tax, and I'd much rather pay less of it, but I don't mind doing my bit for society. Maybe one day I'll be rich enough to dodge more of it :rotfl:

I thought it was 32% to 42%.

I have opted to only work 3.5 days a week as my effective maginal rate is 73% - or actually a bit more as I also lose out on cheaper music lessons for the kids, free prescriptions, reduced water rates etc if I earn a little bit more.

mayonnaise

I kind of agree with this article...

Why both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn should pray that they lose this election (by a whisker)

The Brexit talks, Brexit itself, and whatever follows from it, will obviously dominate the life of the next government, whoever wins this Thursday. It will be a miserable time for all concerned.

We are only now glimpsing that benighted short- to medium-term future for the economy. The data suggest a slowing in the property market, a steep change in the inflation rate, jobs growth declining and industrial and consumer confidence starting to subside.

Whether it is Jeremy Corbyn or Theresa May who is smiling on the doorstep of Number 10, they will not be happy and contented for very long. For circumstances mostly beyond their control will push Britain towards recession, lower living standards and – most terrifyingly of all for a politician – a house price crash. You wonder why anyone would want to actually preside over all that for the next four or five years, with the inevitable pummelling that awaits you at the general election after this one.

So while I'll be voting Labour, I hope the Tories scrape through with a small majority.
I want the vindictive grimacing hag to own the Brexit process, and the economic ruin that comes with it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-general-election-result-brexit-economic-crash-recession-praying-they-lose-a7773166.html

economic

steampowered wrote: »

If what you say is true - then yes, you are a bad person.

You are wrong to say that "everyone else is". Most people are self-interested yes, but most people recognise we are part of a larger society and are very happy to help their fellow human beings.


This is a key point and fundamental to the tax debate. The higher earning parts of the middle class pay the highest rates of tax, because they pay income tax.

The super rich tend to pay lower rates of tax; because they do not pay income tax - it is much more likely to be capital gains tax or corporation tax (with money then withdrawn offshore to avoid paying income tax on dividends).

The obvious conclusion to my mind is to leave income tax alone but increase other types of tax, to resolve the rather strange situation where the richest pay less than those in the middle.

i dont disagree that we should try to help others but it shouldnt be an obligation. we already help the poor through our taxes. what i said was we shouldnt help others through taxation apart from the most basic of needs.

anything else should be compeltely voluntary. do you give money to every single street beggar on the street?

increasing the taxes for the rich is also a very dangerous game. there will be a point when they will get fed up and move money elsewhere. there are also incentives as well as rich business owners would also move (losing jobs AND taxes in the country) or not be as productive simply because they will think i dont want to get taxed more so there is no point working harder as i have enough to live off anyway.

i think i said middle class pay the most taxes, i think i am wrong in that i think its the richest 5-10% who pay the most in absolute terms. however in terms of % of income the middle class gets taxed the most.

kabayiri

steampowered wrote: »

If what you say is true - then yes, you are a bad person.

You are wrong to say that "everyone else is". Most people are self-interested yes, but most people recognise we are part of a larger society and are very happy to help their fellow human beings.


This is a key point and fundamental to the tax debate. The higher earning parts of the middle class pay the highest rates of tax, because they pay income tax.

The super rich tend to pay lower rates of tax; because they do not pay income tax - it is much more likely to be capital gains tax or corporation tax (with money then withdrawn offshore to avoid paying income tax on dividends).

The obvious conclusion to my mind is to leave income tax alone but increase other types of tax, to resolve the rather strange situation where the richest pay less than those in the middle.

*Trust*

The ex-boss of car phone warehouse (I think) sold up for several hundred million, and openly admitted he tries to avoid paying tax.

Why, you may ask.

Well, it's not due to poor greed. He just doesn't trust the state to spend his tax money well. He prefers charitable donation. It's not the only time I have heard this view.

Anybody who has read Private Eye over the decades can list literally dozens and dozens of examples of bad spending decisions, at both local and central government level.

I remain convinced that should we elect a party with ambitious spending plans, in a short timeframe, we will end up reading about a lot more waste and abuse in years to come.

Why can't they build up our trust in them slowly and progressively?

Conrad

mayonnaise wrote: »

'The Brexit talks, Brexit itself, and whatever follows from it, will obviously dominate the life of the next government, whoever wins this Thursday. It will be a miserable time for all concerned'.

Utter bilge, it's exciting and fascinating

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Conrad wrote: »

Utter bilge, it's exciting and fascinating

In the same way that a venomous snake is exciting and fascinating...

Right up until the point it bites you.

ThinkingOutLoud_2

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

In the same way that a venomous snake is exciting and fascinating...

Right up until the point it bites you.

Maybe it is exciting in that truly aside our "informed" views - none of us can truly know yet if the snake is harmless and will eventually slink away or horribly full of venom.

The vitriol of our posts and feelings is though rather fascinating.

Conrad

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

In the same way that a venomous snake is exciting and fascinating...

Right up until the point it bites you.

A modest change to the way a small part of our economy does business, to ensure huge numbers of Dutch, French, Germans and Spaniards can still sell to us and not loose their jobs.


At worst a slight nibble by a Anguis fragilis

setmefree2

michaels wrote: »

I thought it was 32% to 42%.

I have opted to only work 3.5 days a week as my effective maginal rate is 73% - or actually a bit more as I also lose out on cheaper music lessons for the kids, free prescriptions, reduced water rates etc if I earn a little bit more.

My marginal tax rate (as a highest rate tax payer) under Labour plans will be 67.5% .

I have no idea why Labour voters think I only deserve to take home 30% of what I earn? In what world is that fair?

Maybe I'll get an Irish passport, buy a flat in Dublin and pay Irish taxes. I work for an American company - it actually doesn't matter to them where I'm domiciled. There are masses of French in London escaping the socialist taxes in France - maybe they will join me.

Or maybe I'll just retire.