Am I obliged to pay on card if I have the cash but machine won't take it? (train tix)

stuart.pinfold

So I regularly travel between two railway stations, both of which are unstaffed and have no ticket office. The journey only takes a few minutes and costs a few quid but 50% of the time a ticket inspector asks to see tickets so I always (genuinely, I do!) buy a ticket using cash in one of the 2 self service ticket machines.

This week I noticed that on both of the machines there is a notice saying the new £1 coins are not accepted by the machines (presumably as they haven't been upgraded to recognise them).

So my question is - am I legally allowed to choose NOT to pay by card if I ever find myself with enough cash to pay, but only because I have the new coins which the machine doesn't accept? I'm sure the ticket inspectors would pounce on me with a fine and wouldn't accept this explanation, but from a pure legal perspective, where do I stand?

DoaM

Yes - you can legally opt to not pay by card.

By the same token, you are legally obliged to pay for the journey.

If you can't pay by cash, and won't pay by card, you can't legally make the journey as you won't have bought a ticket.

Can you pay the inspector on the train? (Other than as a fine. Up here it isn't unusual to pay on the train if you've not been able to pay at the station).

Stevie_Palimo

You would be fined no excuse as there are machines in the station and you can pay by card of which the vast majority of people would have them, Failing this have change ready that suits the machine.

neilmcl

If you don't have the CORRECT cash to pay for your ticket then you can't travel, simple as that. The above assumes you can't pay by card or on the train itself.

Also, bearing in mind most of us have yet to see the new £1 coin I'd reckon they'd have the machines sorted long before you no longer have any of the old type.

vuvuzela

neilmcl wrote: »

If you don't have the CORRECT cash to pay for your ticket then you can't travel, simple as that. The above assumes you can't pay by card or on the train itself.

Also, bearing in mind most of us have yet to see the new £1 coin I'd reckon they'd have the machines sorted long before you no longer have any of the old type.

Most of us ? There's loads in the change where I am - in fact I've got 4 in my pocket now. As for them getting the machines ready, they've had many months since the samples were produced and distributed for this purpose and if they couldn't be bothered to sort them yet I suspect it'll be a long while longer before they're done...
I'd also quibble with 'correct' cash - the machines *should* be able to take the new coins and it is not the OP's fault they don't. However the OP as said still has to pay for his fare

agrinnall

I've started to get the new £1 coins in the last few days, I've had 6 so far (annoyingly all minted in 2016, I'm trying to make a collection of one from every year, although I expect the 2017 ones will appear at some point). If the machines are still taking the old coins and the TOC hasn't updated the ticket machines by the time they cease to be legal tender perhaps you could build up a stockpile to use after that date as I doubt if they will change the machines to reject them. Although that does then risk you being left with a pile of unusable scrap coins.

neilmcl

vuvuzela wrote: »

Most of us ? There's loads in the change where I am - in fact I've got 4 in my pocket now. As for them getting the machines ready, they've had many months since the samples were produced and distributed for this purpose and if they couldn't be bothered to sort them yet I suspect it'll be a long while longer before they're done...
I'd also quibble with 'correct' cash - the machines *should* be able to take the new coins and it is not the OP's fault they don't. However the OP as said still has to pay for his fare

Where do you live? There are whole swathes of the country that still don't have much of the coins in full circulation, so yes I'd say the majority are still using the old £1 coin at this stage.

bertiewhite

I haven't seen a single new £1 coin yet in Wales.

naedanger

stuart.pinfold wrote: »

So I regularly travel between two railway stations, both of which are unstaffed and have no ticket office. The journey only takes a few minutes and costs a few quid but 50% of the time a ticket inspector asks to see tickets so I always (genuinely, I do!) buy a ticket using cash in one of the 2 self service ticket machines.

This week I noticed that on both of the machines there is a notice saying the new £1 coins are not accepted by the machines (presumably as they haven't been upgraded to recognise them).

So my question is - am I legally allowed to choose NOT to pay by card if I ever find myself with enough cash to pay, but only because I have the new coins which the machine doesn't accept? I'm sure the ticket inspectors would pounce on me with a fine and wouldn't accept this explanation, but from a pure legal perspective, where do I stand?

Is there a notice in the station saying what happens if the ticket machine isn't working?

I think you could successfully argue the machine was not working if it would not accept the new one pound coins and you did not have alternative cash. However you might have a bit of a battle getting that argument accepted, especially by a ticket inspector. So I would not be surprised if you were fined but were able to appeal successfully (assuming it is permitted to travel without a ticket if the machine is not working).

Fosterdog

Also in Wales and not seen one of the new coins.

We don't even have range option to pay cash on our local station, it is card/Apple Pay/android pay only. I don't use the train often and last time I did we didn't even have the machine so it was pay on the train only. I don't know if we could get on and pay cash like we used to be able to.

In your situation they are giving you plenty of opportunity to pay prior to your journey, whether it's by a method you want to pay by or not so if you choose not to pay by card and don't have the correct coins then be prepared to be fined for failing to pay.

vuvuzela

neilmcl wrote: »

Where do you live? There are whole swathes of the country that still don't have much of the coins in full circulation, so yes I'd say the majority are still using the old £1 coin at this stage.

West Yorkshire. Relatives in County Durham also have had them, and in Devon (albeit in larger cities in each area).