Load bearing wall? I don't think so!

rgpipio

Hi,
I've seen loads of posts about "Is this wall load bearing?" but not yet seen one that answer this question... and hopefully it will be useful to others (and me).

Just bought a 1940 semi, with a galley kitchen and dining/living room at the rear groundfloor. I want to knock through to create one room. After research on the internet and talking to a neighbor, I lifted some boards on the ground floor to inspect the foundations and joists below. I was amazed to find the wall was completely unsupported underneath, no joist or bricks to foundation... the wall sat totally on the floor boards. I had intended to post a pic but unfortunately it is ridiculously complicated to do it on this forum.:(

Anyway, the joists run parallel to (but there isn't one directly under) the wall. The other wall in the dining room/living room that runs across the house and is perpendicular to the one I want to knock down does clearly extend straight done to the foundations. It seems obvious to me that this is a load bearing wall and my wall is clearly not....

But am I missing something... the idea of building a wall straight onto floor boards seems insane and I'm anxious that I've missed an obvious point...

Anyway advice gratefully accepted.

Hoploz

I suppose it depends what's above it and therefore how much weight is on it. I know these days you're not allowed to build walls like this on to floorboards, even stud walls I understand, but I think in the past it was done.

The wall dividing the dining/living room is I would imagine underneath another wall dividing two bedrooms?

Consider which way the joists run and which way the roof is supported. There is more to 'load bearing' walls than the weight of the wall itself. The ceilings, floors and roof all need to be adequately supported in order to remain square, upright and together.

Anyway, if your question is 'Am I ok to knock this wall out?' then in theory yes it sounds feasible, but you'll need building control to check it out as alterations need signing off as meeting building regs.

Info here: https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/33/internal_walls/2

Doozergirl

What is above the wall you want to remove?

If there is another brick wall, even crossing it, then it is carrying that load regardless of the fact that it is inadequately supported at the moment. It wouldn't pass building regs and so the remaining wall needs to be supported.

While it is okay to have things that don't meet current regs, the rule is that you cannot make things worse than they are.

If there is genuinely nothing above then it's only carrying the weight of itself, but it's always a good idea to call in a structural engineer where there are brick walls as they can become load bearing over time even if it isn't immediately obvious how.

If it is visibly safe to them, it only costs the time for them to come out with no calcs.

Some of the advice above is dud. A stud wall is made of wooden studwork, hence its name. It doesn't require a foundation. I suspect Hoploz is referring to a brick but non-structural wall as a stud wall. No brick wall is a stud wall.

Also, it's the structural engineer that determines whether Building Control are involved. Removal of a non load bearing wall shouldn't involve Building Control unless the removal opens the kitchen up to the stairwell with no door between.

stator

You haven't mentioned what the wall is made from?

Doozergirl

Oh , haha! I read without reading that it was brick if they werr looking for foundations!

Hoploz

It's always a good idea to call in a structural engineer, but it isn't obligatory.

I was saying that even a stud wall can't be built on to floorboards, which is what my structural engineer said to me recently in discussions about the work he's doing for me at the moment.

stator

Hoploz wrote: »

It's always a good idea to call in a structural engineer, but it isn't obligatory.

I was saying that even a stud wall can't be built on to floorboards, which is what my structural engineer said to me recently in discussions about the work he's doing for me at the moment.

Really?
I can't see how else you'd put up a new wall upstairs

System

With a building of that age, I would always be tempted to take a view from a structural engineer, whilst it might not technically be a "load bearing wall" it may be doing a structural job unintentionally...
I've seen it lots of times, so always worth asking an engineer to comment imo

rgpipio

Thanks for all the feedback so far!

After reading all this i went to the floor above, and yes there is a wall "directly" (read on) above my proposed knock down wall... but again this wall is "resting" on the floorboards... i say "resting" because you can actually slide a ruler underneath the wall between rooms!!! It's unbelievable!

Under the first story floor boards there is a joist running parallel to the separating wall, but not directly below this magic floating wall. However it does appear to be directly above the wall I want to take out on the ground floor. This joist extends to the external wall and to the central "brick to foundations" internal wall on the ground floor. I am working on the basis that these two walls will be supporting the weight/load of this joist, as it does with all the other joists... but am I mistaken?

I will probably end up calling in an engineer to assess, but I would like to start removing and capping off radiators that are currently attached to my knock down wall as I have a couple of days holiday... so being fairly confident this wall will come down would be helpful.

I really appreciate the time you've all taken to reply.

stator

What is the wall you want to know down made from?

Wookey

That sounds like a wall that is typical of house building from that era, cinder or clinker
blocks is probably what it is made from which are quite light in weight, if you drill a hole in the wall is the dust almost black in colour?