Britannia PCN - Ferrybridge Marine (Billy Winters Restaurant) Portland

freester

Just a small update.

Spoke to the (very helpful) manager this week. He's going to speak to the Marina landlord about getting it cancelled (no promises made yet though). He was bemoaning the fact that he had to speak to the Landlord about a ticket issued to one of his employees who was displaying a pass! :rotfl:

Portland Port got back to me. It's not on land subject to the local byelaws unfortunately (only up to the High Water mark at this location in the harbour).

Coupon-mad wrote: »

A Keeper can safely wait for a NTK with them before appealing, because they are non-POFA. In the case I mentioned above, I advised the person to wait and see then appealed against the NTK also pointing out it was non-POFA. Britannia gave up.

I'm tempted to take this approach if it doesn't get cancelled by the landowner intervening with Britannia!

freester

Well I managed to quash this one at appeal to Britannia. I threw the kitchen sink at them about the inadequacy of their signage (being careful not to reveal the driver).

Further to your appeal received on 05/05/2017 regarding the above Parking Charge Notice. The appeal has been reviewed. The photographs and any evidence have all been taken into account. Having considered the content of your letter we have cancelled this notice.

I'll put my appeal words up on this thread a bit later...

MothballsWallet

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Even if you can't get proof in time, allege it falls within those byelaws anyway, as an extra POPLA point.

freester - at POPLA, you can make statements about what the PPC has borked up and it's up to the PPC to prove that they haven't (but if you've got evidence of their borking incompetence, then that's even better).

freester

MothballsWallet wrote: »

freester - at POPLA, you can make statements about what the PPC has borked up and it's up to the PPC to prove that they haven't (but if you've got evidence of their borking incompetence, then that's even better).

Thanks but I fended this one off before POPLA!

freester

Here is the appeal I sent to Britannia. Basically comparing signage to the BPA CoP, Grace Periods and then the standard template from the sticky post.

*************
Dear Sir / Madam

Re: PCN #1234567 - Reg AB12 CDE


As keeper of the car I dispute this 'PCN'.

The signage was not seen by the driver.

As you are members of the British Parking Association Approved Operator Scheme you are no doubt familiar with the BPA's Code of Practice (CoP):

http://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS_Code_of_Practice_October_2015_update_V6..pdf

Signage at your site #E33 - Ferrybridge Marine, where this PCN was issued is woefully inadequate and does not meet the requirements specified within the CoP.

For example:

1) Section 18.2 states "you must also have a standard form of entrance sign at the entrance to the parking area. Entrance signs must tell drivers that the car park is managed and that there are terms and conditions they must be aware of."

There are NO signs at the entrance to this site.

2) Section 18.3 states "Specific parking-term signage tells drivers what your terms and conditions are, including your parking charges. You must place signs containing the specific parking terms throughout the site."

Signs are not placed through the site meeting these requirements; apart from the sign by the pay & display ticket machine none of the signs detail the parking charges or terms and conditions.

3) Section 18.3 also states "Signs must be conspicuous and legible, and written in intelligible language, so that they are easy to see, read and understand.".

There were no signs in the vicinity of the vehicle where it was parked at the sea front. The closest signs were over 15-20m from the car as far as possible from the sea front. In addition they were either knocked over, or behind piles of rubble and discarded timber. The lettering on the signs is small and unreadable at the closest distance one can safely approach these signs.

This is not an exhaustive list of the non-compliant nature of the signage. I have included photographic evidence taken on the day the ticket was issued showing the poor state of the signage, none evident at the site entrance, and no signage visible at the seafront.

As well as the non-compliance of the signage to the BPA CoP I also believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.

In summary - your BPA CoP non-compliant, distant and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, and the terms are absent or not readable by drivers.

The discarded timber and piles of rubble in front of some of the signs could also be deemed a Health and Safety hazard. I hope that as Car Park Operator you have valid liability insurance in case of any accident that might occur if a child was playing on some of the hazards in this car park that the public have access to in the process of parking.

Additionally Section 13.2 states "You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go.". Although the issued PCN claims the car was parked for 10 minutes the driver absolutely disputes this and maintains the ticket was issued by your attendant much less than 10 minutes after the car was parked. Thefore I maintain the driver was not given a reasonable grace period to decide whether to stay or go.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

Should you obtain the registered keeper's data from the DVLA without reasonable cause, please take this as formal notice that I reserve the right to sue your company and the landowner/principal, for a sum not less than £250 for any Data Protection Act breach. Your aggressive business practice and unwarranted threat of court for the ordinary matter of a driver using my car without causing any obstruction nor offence, has caused significant distress to me.

I do not give you consent to process data relating to me or this vehicle. I deny liability for any sum at all and you must consider this letter a Section 10 Notice under the DPA. You are required to respond within 21 days.

I have kept proof of submission. Please acknowledge receipt. I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully,

*************

I also included a few of the photos from the post above and some photos taken a few days later showing no signage at the site entrance and lack of signage at the waterfront. Hope this helps anyone in a similar situation.

trisontana

jenjnif wrote: »

Hi all,

I have been reading your thread and found it very useful for my own ticket from the Ferrybridge car park back in July 2018. I had parked my van there not knowing that it was part of any pay and display. The signs here are abysmal as shown in this thread. I got a ticket and when I tried to log in to dispute it, it wasn't recognised. I tried a few more times but still the same, so I emailed them. They couldn't find my ticket at all and I wrote back to say that I hoped that would be the end of it and heard nothing more. I still have not had an email response.

Then I returned from my holiday to a 'notice to keeper' in the post dated 5 October. I want to dispute this but I am not sure of the best tact. I want to say that I tried to do this in July and my PCN number was not recognised on their system or when I emailed and that their signs fail on many regulations. I am also not giving them any driver names so not sure if they can even follow through with the fine.

Has anyoe got any suggestions with how to proceed?? Thanks so much.

The best way to proceed is to start your own thread.

jenjnif

trisontana wrote: »

The best way to proceed is to start your own thread.

Super helpful, thanks