Britannia PCN - Ferrybridge Marine (Billy Winters Restaurant) Portland

freester

One time thread poster (this is my 2nd) and long time lurker ever since.

Just got off the phone with my SO. Her car had a Britannia PCN stuck to it today whilst visiting the Billy Winters Restaurant at Portland.

The restaurant was actually closed but in the time the driver had parked, gone to the restaurant entrance and determined it was shut the scum attendant had emerged from his hole and was writing the ticket.

Grrr. Haven't seen the ticket or the photos of the crappy signage my wife took after the event until I get home.

Anyway I am thinking aloud... I think I know what to do but will post on here as a sanity check this as this is a standard 'MSE Parking Forum' procedure:

- Get in touch with restaurant owner / manager and see what they can do to overturn the ticket... Consider big moan to the local rag / social media etc as this is a very popular eatery.

- In parallel appeal to Britannia after 26 days (that's just days, not working days right?).

- Britannia are POPLA right?

- Mrs mentioned on the ticket 'Driver not present' was ticked although one of the party in the car did confront the attendant as the ticket was issued - I assume this is a 'trick' to get the driver to be revealed?

If it goes to POPLA standard points:

POFA non compliant
Unclear signage
Grace periods

etc?

Grr rant over. Thanks for listening.

Coupon-mad

- Get in touch with restaurant owner / manager and see what they can do to overturn the ticket... Consider big moan to the local rag / social media etc as this is a very popular eatery.

- In parallel appeal to Britannia after 26 days (that's just days, not working days right?).

- Britannia are POPLA right?

Yes, yes, yes.

Easy to beat at POPLA!

freester

Well we're just trying to get hold of the owner of the cafe now.

No signs on the entrance to the land (which I know is a BPA CoP recommendation). Small lettering. No signs anywhere near where the car was parked. Any signs that were remotely close had either fallen over or you couldn't get near enough to read because of all the rubbish!

Coupon-mad

Hilariously shoddy signs! But you will win at POPLA anyway, Britannia always give up against us!

freester

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Hilariously shoddy signs! But you will win at POPLA anyway, Britannia always give up against us!

:beer:

Hardest bit about it right now is patience. Mrs F's kneejerk reaction is she just wants this problem 'cleared'. Whereas this is a real waiting game now - waiting for the right time to appeal the ticket then wait to see if the NtK turns up before POPLA appeal due. Makes you realise this is part of the scam - emotional reactions invoke mistakes and errors (such as admitting who was driving).

Makes you realise when you see signage this bad what a scam / con / ripoff this whole industry is when they can't even be bothered to get the signs and other practice right but still coin it in.

Better regulation anyone ?

Coupon-mad

Do we actually want better regulation?

I reckon we need PPCs banned from the court process entirely, and the whole protection racket then criminalised.

freester

A question about the timing of the appeal:

- NTK can't be sent by operator until after 28 days after NTD. Operator has the 'second' period of 28 days to send it.
- POPLA number will be issued on or around day 28 depending on when initial appeal submitted at around day 26, so you don't have long to wait to see if the NTK turns up in time? As you have 28/30 days for POPLA appeal but waiting the same time for the NTK? Is is possible with the timings to submit POPLA near end of submission deadline and then receive the NTK?

Another question...

I'm really thinking of going a bit more to town in the initial operator appeal by detailing how woeful the signage is to see if I can quash it at that point. Worth it? Or revealing cards to soon? Obviously the operator appeal will be worded carefully to not reveal driver.

Coupon-mad

A question about the timing of the appeal:

- NTK can't be sent by operator until after 28 days after NTD. Operator has the 'second' period of 28 days to send it.

- POPLA number will be issued on or around day 28 depending on when initial appeal submitted at around day 26, so you don't have long to wait to see if the NTK turns up in time? As you have 28/30 days for POPLA appeal but waiting the same time for the NTK?

Is it possible with the timings to submit POPLA near end of submission deadline and then receive the NTK?

I've never seen a PPC manage it. Remember than uploading a POPLA appeal on day 30 or 31 (in the evening or at a weekend) is fine and the PPC don't see it that day, maybe won't even look at it for a few days.

Hence why if you wait till day 26/27 to do an online appeal, then the PPC think about it and reject it (averaging 2 or 3 weeks to issue the POPLA code, IMHO), you are almost there already and still have a fresh POPLA code which will last yet another month. Gets people well past day 56 in most cases.

And re the first appeal, yes, the keeper could lay into them with pictures of the signs falling over, etc. And does that seem to be a Harbour/Port byelaws site? Not relevant land, so no keeper liability anyway?

Britannia do sometimes give up early doors - they did when I helped someone and put in a non-template appeal telling Britannia that they had no chance because the driver was not going to be admitted AND the car park in question has NO Britannia signs (yep - a very useful place to park!) and their evidence photos alleging an overstay were both timed at the same time at the end of parking - there was no evidence of arrival time.

Oh, and re Britannia, no need to bust a gut planning/timing it because (as long as the driver is not admitted) you will win!

A Keeper can safely wait for a NTK with them before appealing, because they are non-POFA. In the case I mentioned above, I advised the person to wait and see then appealed against the NTK also pointing out it was non-POFA. Britannia gave up.

freester

Thank you C-M. Re the timing - the bit I was missing is it will take some time for them to reject the initial appeal... So by then the time to appeal to POPLA and the time they need to send the NTK by will give at least a week or two! It all adds up now!

freester

Coupon-mad wrote: »

And does that seem to be a Harbour/Port byelaws site? Not relevant land, so no keeper liability anyway?

Hmm good point. Initial reaction was no it's a private boatyard but it's also adjacent to the water which is part of Portland Harbour. Portland Port is subject to Byelaws so I have emailed the Port Authority to see if the land is under the jurisdiction of the Port Byelaws!

Coupon-mad

Even if you can't get proof in time, allege it falls within those byelaws anyway, as an extra POPLA point.