Capital One PPI Rejection BUT

Roo118117

I submitted my PPI complaint to Capital One several weeks ago after paying PPI for 10 years and finding out about the PPI shenanigans very recently (I have not lived in the UK for 6 years). They have of course rejected my claim and said it's their final word on it and that they believe they did nothing wrong. But interestingly, along with their reply letter they included a photocopy of my original paper application form, which clearly shows that I ticked NO for PPI.


They say that several months later during the card activation phone call I requested PPI on my account. I strongly believe that I did not, as I remember absolutely not wanting PPI back then after having wasted money on it with other cards before. I believe that either the rep added it anyway, or somehow they pushed me into adding it so that they could get their commission. And the letter states that they cannot find a recording of the call in which I requested PPI but that the rep at the time "would have" followed out standard script.


So as far as things stand right now, the only evidence they have provided is the copy of my application form in which I ticked 'no' for PPI and a story that I requested it later during the activation call, but they have no recording of the call. I also told them in my complaint to cancel PPI on my account as of now, but they have not done so and I have been charged for another month.


It seems like I have a pretty good case for this. What is my next step?


Thanks in advance for your help!

[Deleted User]

If you're not happy with their final response, then you escalate it to FOS.

dunstonh

But interestingly, along with their reply letter they included a photocopy of my original paper application form, which clearly shows that I ticked NO for PPI.

Nothing unusual there. Most Cap One PPI was sold post sale over the phone when activating the card.

They say that several months later during the card activation phone call I requested PPI on my account.

And there you have it.

I strongly believe that I did not, as I remember absolutely not wanting PPI back then after having wasted money on it with other cards before.

So, when you started to see the PPI on the statement, what did you do about contacting Cap One to say that you didnt ask for it?

I believe that either the rep added it anyway, or somehow they pushed me into adding it so that they could get their commission.

Bang goes your credibility. You cant make your mind up on what happened. One sentence you say you didnt. Next you say they added it without permission then you say you were strong armed into it.

It seems like I have a pretty good case for this.

Really? Nothing about your case seems strong. No factual reasons that can be evidenced. Just your recollection which has given us three versions in just a few lines.

What is my next step?

Refer your complaint to the FOS. It may also be a good idea to tone down your expectation. Maybe focus on something factual in nature and not poor recollection.

Nearlyold

If you

remember absolutely not wanting PPI back then after having wasted money on it with other cards before

is does rather beg the question why you did not cancel the PPI at some point during the 10 years you saw it on your statements. It was Capital One's usual procedure to try & sell PPI over the phone on the activation call they offered it to me on a number of occasions but I always found it easy to decline.

burnleymik

Just flat-out deny you agreed to it during the sales call. Tell them if you wanted it you would have ticked the box requesting it when you signed upto the card. Do not leave any ambiguity in your argument.

Roo118117

dunstonh wrote: »

Nothing unusual there. Most Cap One PPI was sold post sale over the phone when activating the card.



And there you have it.
Oh good, you spotted what was already mentioned.

So, when you started to see the PPI on the statement, what did you do about contacting Cap One to say that you didnt ask for it?

As I had specifically chosen not to have PPI when submitting my application form, upon later seeing the payments, I believed that it was mandatory. I did specifically request not to have PPI, as evidenced in my application form. It is only recently that I have learned that millions of people were mis-sold PPI, some of whom were misled to believe it was mandatory.

Bang goes your credibility.


Nothing has gone bang.


You cant make your mind up on what happened. One sentence you say you didnt.


Didn't what? Didn't request PPI? Yes, this is correct. I already mentioned this.


Next you say they added it without permission then you say you were strong armed into it.


Those are the only two possible explanations. This was a decade ago. I do not remember every word of every conversation I have, for decades. But I do remember being very much against PPI at the time after having felt I wasted money on PPI with other credit cards previously.

Really? Nothing about your case seems strong. No factual reasons that can be evidenced. Just your recollection which has given us three versions in just a few lines.


Sorry that you're still struggling with this. Maybe you missed the part where I mentioned: 1. I have a copy of the application in which I requested NOT to have PPI. 2. I strongly believe I did not ask for PPI in any follow up telephone call. And 3. Capital One have no evidence of any such phone call in which they allege or assume that I requested PPI, and therefore they cannot prove this.


To make it even more clear here's what's going on:

1. I got myself a credit card ten years ago and specifically requested not to have PPI.
2. Capital One added PPI anyway.
3. I am asking for that money back, now that I know they got in trouble for mis-selling lots of PPI deals and that PPI was not mandatory for me.
4. They say I must have asked for it in a phone call but they don't have a copy of the audio or transcript of the call and no other evidence to prove this story.

So really, the only evidence is the application in which I requested not to have PPI by ticking the 'no' box.

Refer your complaint to the FOS. It may also be a good idea to tone down your expectation. Maybe focus on something factual in nature and not poor recollection.


Trust me, my expectation on this is rock bottom. This is Capital One we're talking about. It may be a good idea for you to tone down your arrogance when interacting with new acquaintances.

Answers are in bold.

Roo118117

burnleymik wrote: »

Just flat-out deny you agreed to it during the sales call. Tell them if you wanted it you would have ticked the box requesting it when you signed upto the card. Do not leave any ambiguity in your argument.

Thanks. And yes, there is just no way I would have wanted PPI at the time, which is why I suspect the rep added it without my knowledge or worded things in such a way that I was unaware I was agreeing to add PPI to my account. I was not recording the call and as this is a decade ago I do not recall the exact words that were exchanged, but as you said, if I was interested in having PPI on my account I would have ticked the 'yes' box rather than the 'no'.


But my original question in this thread was what do to next. Can I reply to Capital One disputing their decision or is that a waste of $4.20 in postage as they will just tell me their decision is final? Is the only next step to escalate and wait for a third party decision?

[Deleted User]

I wouldn't spend "$4.20" replying to the Bank's full and final response. Your choice whether to waste the same amount referring your "complaint" to the Ombudsman.

Nasqueron

burnleymik wrote: »

Just flat-out deny you agreed to it during the sales call. Tell them if you wanted it you would have ticked the box requesting it when you signed upto the card. Do not leave any ambiguity in your argument.

How do you expect OP to prove that happened?

In the eyes of an independent third party, OP has said he didn't want it, ticked no, apparently was a victim of fraud when a salesman ticked a box after a phone call where he says he didn't want it (despite the salesman stitching themselves up as the call would probably be recorded) and then ignored 10 years of statements showing he was paying PPI (which again, was fraudulently added to the account is his eyes), then upon seeing the whole PPI £££ suddenly realised a product he didn't want, didn't agree to and was a victim of fraud over was worth taking issue over.

Alternatively, he was sold it over the phone, agreed, forgot what happened 10 years ago and now wants to complain!

dunstonh

It may be a good idea for you to tone down your arrogance when interacting with new acquaintances.

Oh the irony. Remember you are the one who claims they were mis-sold. Not me.

1. I got myself a credit card ten years ago and specifically requested not to have PPI.
2. Capital One added PPI anyway.
3. I am asking for that money back, now that I know they got in trouble for mis-selling lots of PPI deals and that PPI was not mandatory for me.
4. They say I must have asked for it in a phone call but they don't have a copy of the audio or transcript of the call and no other evidence to prove this story.

1 - irreverent. It is a snapshot in time. That is all. It does not explain or describe what happened later.
2 - And they have an explanation as to how it was sold. It is also a method that the FOS accept as they have copies of the sales script that was used from that time. They know that is was mostly sold over the phone and will have no reason to doubt it.
3 - No. you are making an allegation of wrongdoing. If they agree then they refund the money. If they do not, then they do not refund it. Each complaint is looked at on its own merits and evidence.
4 - They don't need to. They are not the ones making the allegations. You are. UK law puts the onus on the accuser. If they had evidence to support your allegation they would uphold it. With no evidence or a hint that what you are saying is right, then the decision to reject your complaint is correct.

You may find it useful to engage with people and not turn into a 13 year old with a keyboard just because they point out the issues you have.

Nasqueron

I'll try and word this plainly as in independent, as how the bank or FOS would view this.

So, when you started to see the PPI on the statement, what did you do about contacting Cap One to say that you didnt ask for it?

As I had specifically chosen not to have PPI when submitting my application form, upon later seeing the payments, I believed that it was mandatory. I did specifically request not to have PPI, as evidenced in my application form. It is only recently that I have learned that millions of people were mis-sold PPI, some of whom were misled to believe it was mandatory.

This is contradictory and harms your case - you say the form had yes/no and ticked no. You got the card. How could it be mandatory if you had a yes/no tickbox on the form and were successful in getting the card after ticking no?

Bang goes your credibility.


Nothing has gone bang.

You lose any credibility when you start throwing allegations of fraud around or conspiracy theories about people adding PPI without your agreement in order to get commission without any evidence.

PPI is shown on every statement for 10 years. You said you didn't want it, but didn't complain after the first statement with it on which would have revealed this staff member was committing fraud.

That is another area where your credibility is shot. To the neutral it looks like you have had PPI for 10 years, heard about the PPI payouts and decided you wanted a piece of that.

You cant make your mind up on what happened. One sentence you say you didnt.

Didn't what? Didn't request PPI? Yes, this is correct. I already mentioned this.

Next you say they added it without permission then you say you were strong armed into it.

Those are the only two possible explanations. This was a decade ago. I do not remember every word of every conversation I have, for decades. But I do remember being very much against PPI at the time after having felt I wasted money on PPI with other credit cards previously.

There are 2 possible explanations:

1) You agreed to it and forgot about it after 10 years
2) It was added without your permission

Again, after the first statement, why did you not complain?

Really? Nothing about your case seems strong. No factual reasons that can be evidenced. Just your recollection which has given us three versions in just a few lines.


Sorry that you're still struggling with this. Maybe you missed the part where I mentioned: 1. I have a copy of the application in which I requested NOT to have PPI. 2. I strongly believe I did not ask for PPI in any follow up telephone call. And 3. Capital One have no evidence of any such phone call in which they allege or assume that I requested PPI, and therefore they cannot prove this.

You aren't reading what was put - you need to provide factual evidence to support your complaint

1) This is irrelevant, statistically most Cap PPI was sold on the phone after the card
2) That isn't factual evidence
3) They don't have to, YOU are alleging wrongdoing, YOU must prove it - again, if it was added without your knowledge, why did you not complain immediately?

To make it even more clear here's what's going on:

1. I got myself a credit card ten years ago and specifically requested not to have PPI.
2. Capital One added PPI anyway.
3. I am asking for that money back, now that I know they got in trouble for mis-selling lots of PPI deals and that PPI was not mandatory for me.
4. They say I must have asked for it in a phone call but they don't have a copy of the audio or transcript of the call and no other evidence to prove this story.

So really, the only evidence is the application in which I requested not to have PPI by ticking the 'no' box.

Again 1) is irrelevant, people change their minds
2) If they did, that is fraud, why did you not challenge it immediately given your dislike of the product?
3) What evidence do you have that it's mandatory? Your application form with yes/no proves it was not mandatory. That contradicts your statement
4) They don't need to. The FOS accepts sales scripts from the time of what the staff member was likely to have said

Refer your complaint to the FOS. It may also be a good idea to tone down your expectation. Maybe focus on something factual in nature and not poor recollection.


Trust me, my expectation on this is rock bottom. This is Capital One we're talking about. It may be a good idea for you to tone down your arrogance when interacting with new acquaintances.

If you go to the FOS alleging fraud and all the rest, they will not give you the time of day. Your account contradicts itself on 2 clear areas:

1) You claim you thought it was mandatory but as you keep pointing out, the application form showed it was optional
2) You claim it was added without your permission, but you did not complain 10 years ago

You need to keep the complaint concise and factual, throwing nonsense conspiracy theories about staff committing fraud for commission which you can't prove won't help your case