Expired ID - not proof of age?

pendragon_arther

Sicard wrote: »

Just to put into perspective on how silly this situation really is; if a crowd of say 15 people go into a supermarket to buy some alcohol and they're at the checkout with one of them paying and this assistant is worried about being fined £5000 if one of them is underage do they check everyone's id?

I'll take this further; an 18 year old goes into Argos and buys a set of kitchen knives accompanied by other people. Does the assistant check everyone's id?

Or a 16 year old buys cigarettes from a shop with others in tow. Does the assistant check everyone's id?

When I was a teenager myself and some mates went into a pub at 15 and got served pints of beer. I also bought cigs at 12. This was in the early 60s. How times have changed. For the better? Debatable.

I'm with you on this but maybe it's because I'm old school. It's rather like saying the person who is of age isn't to be trusted to be responsible in making adult decisions. It smacks of a nanny state.

Gers

ScarletMarble wrote: »

If the cashier overhears a conversation between you and your son about the wine is for him, the cashier can refuse due to proxy. This means buying alcohol for the intention for an under 18. It also applies to tobacco now.

It is not illegal to buy alcohol to give to an under 18 year old. The only age limit for the drinking of alcohol is for under 5 year olds. Adults are perfectly within the law to give alcohol to their children, or others' children from the age of 5 years upwards.

The age at which people are legally allowed to purchase alcohol is 18 in most circumstances.

Adults purchasing alcohol on behalf of a person under 18 in a pub or from an off-licence are potentially liable to prosecution along with the vendor.

However, legislation does allow for the consumption of alcohol by those under 18 in the following circumstances:

The individual is aged 5 or older, and is at home or other private premises.
The individual is aged 16 or 17 and the alcohol, which can only be beer, wine or cider, is consumed with a table meal.

The person making the purchase must themselves be over 18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_licensing_laws_of_the_United_Kingdom and other sites.

There is an over-reaction by some retailers, perhaps because they have been caught out selling to under 18s. The insistence by some retailers of the '25 years old' rule is store policy and nothing to do with the law.

slashlover

It's illegal to buy alcohol for someone under 18 but it is not illegal to give alcohol to someone under 18 in your own home.

It's like the quirk that a 16 year old can legally drink certain types of alcohol with a meal in a restaurant. BUT the 16 year old CANNOT legally be the one to order or pay for the alcohol, the accompanying adult must do this.

https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/alcohol-and-the-law/the-law-on-alcohol-and-under-18s/

It is against the law -
To sell alcohol to someone under 18 anywhere.
For an adult to buy or attempt to buy alcohol on behalf of someone under 18. (Retailers can reserve the right to refuse the sale of alcohol to an adult if they’re accompanied by a child and think the alcohol is being bought for the child.)!
For someone under 18 to buy alcohol, attempt to buy alcohol or to be sold alcohol.
For someone under 18 to drink alcohol in licensed premises, except where the child is 16 or 17 years old and accompanied by an adult. In this case it is legal for them to drink, but not buy, beer, wine and cider with a table meal.
For an adult to buy alcohol for someone under 18 for consumption on licensed premises, except as above.
To give children alcohol if they are under five.

It is not illegal -
For someone over 18 to buy a child over 16 beer, wine or cider if they are eating a table meal together in licensed premises.
For a child aged five to 16 to drink alcohol at home or on other private premises.

timbstoke

Gers wrote: »

It is not illegal to buy alcohol to give to an under 18 year old. The only age limit for the drinking of alcohol is for under 5 year olds. Adults are perfectly within the law to give alcohol to their children, or others' children from the age of 5 years upwards.

You linked a Wikipedia article, but didn't bother to read it. It's an offence under Section 149 of the Licensing Act 2003 to purchase alcohol on behalf of anybody under 18, with a couple of specific exceptions.

The legislation doesn't define "on behalf of" so it would be up to a court to decide where there's some question. Taking money from a child to buy alcohol for them would certainly be buying it on behalf. Giving a child a glass of sherry at Christmas probably wouldn't be. Buying a crate of WKD for your childs birthday party probably is, giving them a bottle out of the crate you bought for yourself might possibly be.

Gers

timbstoke wrote: »

You linked a Wikipedia article, but didn't bother to read it. It's an offence under Section 149 of the Licensing Act 2003 to purchase alcohol on behalf of anybody under 18, with a couple of specific exceptions.

The legislation doesn't define "on behalf of" so it would be up to a court to decide where there's some question. Taking money from a child to buy alcohol for them would certainly be buying it on behalf. Giving a child a glass of sherry at Christmas probably wouldn't be. Buying a crate of WKD for your childs birthday party probably is, giving them a bottle out of the crate you bought for yourself might possibly be.

Rude! Of course I read it, in fact I used to teach this topic so please don't confuse me with someone else.

The only relevant part which I didn't quote was:

The age at which people are legally allowed to purchase alcohol is 18 in most circumstances. Adults purchasing alcohol on behalf of a person under 18 in a pub or from an off-licence are potentially liable to prosecution along with the vendor.

It's all down to place and age. On licensed premises it's an offence to buy alcohol to give to an under 18 year old unless is aged 16 or 17 and the alcohol, which can only be beer, wine or cider, is consumed with a table meal - and that's a the sole discretion of the licensee.

Buying any alcohol to give to an under 18 year old (and over 5 years) anywhere apart from licensed premises is not an offence. So, even if I take a 15 year old with to a supermarket and want to buy (for instance) six bottles of wine the law does not prevent that. The supermarket policy may well.

Gers

slashlover wrote: »

It's illegal to buy alcohol for someone under 18 but it is not illegal to give alcohol to someone under 18 in your own home.

It's like the quirk that a 16 year old can legally drink certain types of alcohol with a meal in a restaurant. BUT the 16 year old CANNOT legally be the one to order or pay for the alcohol, the accompanying adult must do this.

https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/alcohol-facts/alcohol-and-the-law/the-law-on-alcohol-and-under-18s/

It is against the law -
To sell alcohol to someone under 18 anywhere.
For an adult to buy or attempt to buy alcohol on behalf of someone under 18. (Retailers can reserve the right to refuse the sale of alcohol to an adult if they’re accompanied by a child and think the alcohol is being bought for the child.)!
For someone under 18 to buy alcohol, attempt to buy alcohol or to be sold alcohol.
For someone under 18 to drink alcohol in licensed premises, except where the child is 16 or 17 years old and accompanied by an adult. In this case it is legal for them to drink, but not buy, beer, wine and cider with a table meal.
For an adult to buy alcohol for someone under 18 for consumption on licensed premises, except as above.
To give children alcohol if they are under five.

It is not illegal -
For someone over 18 to buy a child over 16 beer, wine or cider if they are eating a table meal together in licensed premises.
For a child aged five to 16 to drink alcohol at home or on other private premises.

That's almost exactly what I said!

nkkingston

To go back to the original question, my understanding is that shops won't take expired ID because there's a higher risk that it doesn't belong to the person wielding it. In an ideal world, everyone with a licence always renews it on time and always destroys their old one. In the real world, people often pass their expired IDs onto younger siblings/friends that happen to look similar, to 'have a go with'. It's especially common with provisional licences - over 18 teen passes on the provisional once they've got their full licence, and then everyone can go drinking as long as no one notices they've got the same name and photo!

(A provisional, however, is still full ID, contrary to the belief of a certain M&S employee who once stopped me buying chocolate port, because that's what all the kids are getting drunk on these days!)

I do find it weird when I get IDed and my partner doesn't, especially in challenge 30 places. Do they really think he's over 30 but I'm possibly under 18?

NCC-1701

nkkingston wrote: »

To go back to the original question, my understanding is that shops won't take expired ID because there's a higher risk that it doesn't belong to the person wielding it. In an ideal world, everyone with a licence always renews it on time and always destroys their old one. In the real world, people often pass their expired IDs onto younger siblings/friends that happen to look similar, to 'have a go with'. It's especially common with provisional licences - over 18 teen passes on the provisional once they've got their full licence, and then everyone can go drinking as long as no one notices they've got the same name and photo!

(A provisional, however, is still full ID, contrary to the belief of a certain M&S employee who once stopped me buying chocolate port, because that's what all the kids are getting drunk on these days!)

I do find it weird when I get IDed and my partner doesn't, especially in challenge 30 places. Do they really think he's over 30 but I'm possibly under 18?

The clue is in the name....and it's not challenge 18.

preciousillusions

This happened to me with my passport when buying wine in Tesco. It's a year expired and problem is I don't drive (and can't get a provisional license due to a health issue) so in order to get valid ID I need to apply for one of those citizen ID cards (think they are like £15) or pay out to get a new passport which is a huge pain. I am going out tomorrow evening and really hope this isn't going to be an issue if asked for ID at the bar! (It never has). I am 30 but I look a lot younger.

daytona0

preciousillusions wrote: »

This happened to me with my passport when buying wine in Tesco. It's a year expired and problem is I don't drive (and can't get a provisional license due to a health issue) so in order to get valid ID I need to apply for one of those citizen ID cards (think they are like £15) or pay out to get a new passport which is a huge pain. I am going out tomorrow evening and really hope this isn't going to be an issue if asked for ID at the bar! (It never has). I am 30 but I look a lot younger.

Funnily enough, a passport is typically valid for 10 years (mine is currently 2015 to 2026 it seems).... Costs about £80 roughly to renew it.

That's £8 a year you need to save up, or 66p a month.

As simple as that to end up with a valid ID and prevent the possibility of an awkward exchange whenever you try to buy alcohol in a pub, club, off licence etc.

But hey ho, each to their own!