Electric Cars

AdrianC

Ectophile wrote: »

Hydrogen doesn't gain you anything. You can't dig it out of the ground; you have to manufacture it. That means lots of energy from somewhere. You might as well just use that energy to charge batteries, rather than messing about manufacturing a fuel that isn't very dense (unlike petrol, diesel or even LPG), and leaks out of your tank at the slightest opportunity.

Yup.

There's a difference between an energy source and an energy-transmission medium.

Electricity is a transmission medium, as is hydrogen.
Fossil fuels are sources, as are solar and wind energy.

Keep_pedalling

Stoke wrote: »

Tesla Model 3 will be the one that changes everything..... If it ever arrives. The delivery has been put back several times and I'm starting to think it's a pipe dream.
.

The main hold up has been battery production, but with Gigafactory 1 swinging into large scale production last month they really should be hitting US roads later this year and the UK next, but if you did not put an early deposit down you are going to have another year's wait at least to get your hands on one.

almillar

Cheers, I like saloon cars more so, or 'meatier' hatchbacks!

It's a Tesla you're after then! ioniq is the biggest (apparantly) pure EV at the moment short of the Tesla. If you go hybrid you can have a 3 Series, E- Class, Outlander, RAV-4, i8 etc so much more choice of body styles. All of the above are pretty expensive though, so don't expect electric saloons or 'meaty' hatchbacks to be any cheaper than them!

Electric cars just not worth doing, the industry is going to bleed the consumers dry with electric cars, then in 10-15 years, they'll be demonised just like Diesels, then they'll roll out hydrogen fuel cells (see GM Hy-wire) and start pushing those instead.

OK Negative Nancy, let's just stick with our Vauxhall Vectras, shall we.

gzoom

Stoke wrote: »

Tesla Model 3 will be the one that changes everything..... If it ever arrives. The delivery has been put back several times and I'm starting to think it's a pipe dream.

Actually the Model 3 hasn't been delayed or pushed back, quite the contrary. Originally Tesla wasn't due to start ramping up production till 2020 but brought the target of 500k cars per year forwards to 2018 after receiving 400k preorderes.

The 3 is currently on track to start production in September, but because of the huge number of US preorders I don't think RHD cars will be ready till 2019.

Biggest advantage Tesla have is their battery factory. Jaguar/VW are all sourcing their batteries from LG, where as Tesla have a dedicated factory for their cars via Panasonic.

Infact Tesla/Panasonic estimate demand to be so high they are already planning the next 2-3 battery factories.

Affordable EVs with 200mile range is coming, next few years we should see these cars appearing at the £30k bracket, and prices will quickly fall as we go into 2020.

Remember when flat screen TVs use to cost £5k and now you can get a 65inch panel for £600.

Martyn1981

Stoke wrote: »

Tesla Model 3 will be the one that changes everything..... If it ever arrives. The delivery has been put back several times and I'm starting to think it's a pipe dream.

Tesla May Be Hinting Model 3 Could Be Coming Sooner Than Expected (Video)

Tesla Model 3 Production On Track For >5,000 Units A Week By End Of 2017 & 10,000 Units A Week In 2018

Martyn1981

gzoom wrote: »

Affordable EVs with 200mile range is coming, next few years we should see these cars appearing at the £30k bracket, and prices will quickly fall as we go into 2020.

Both the Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model 3 should retail for about $30k (after discounts) and both should do about 200miles.

Car & Driver magazine got 190 miles out of a Bolt doing 75mph freeway driving, and a Bolt owner recently managed 318 miles. :cool:

Gloomendoom

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Car & Driver magazine got 190 miles out of a Bolt doing 75mph freeway driving, and a Bolt owner recently managed 318 miles. :cool:

It was possible to do over 200 miles in a mass produced electric car a hundred years ago.

That is :cool:er.

Mobeer

Zola. wrote: »

Cheers, I like saloon cars more so, or 'meatier' hatchbacks!

Ioniq aint a bad looking motor, do like the Tesla 3 though!

As a company car the BMW 330e saloon is a rather nice plug-in hybrid.

gzoom

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Both the Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model 3 should retail for about $30k (after discounts) and both should do about 200miles.

Car & Driver magazine got 190 miles out of a Bolt doing 75mph freeway driving, and a Bolt owner recently managed 318 miles. :cool:

The issue GM has with the Bolt is ramping up production. Its well recognised GM LOSSES money on each Bolt sold!! Tesla are recognised to have access to the cheapest battery pack price yet even when selling a 60kWh Model S for $60K+ they cannot return a overall profit due to ongoing Investment costs needed to build the necessary infrastructure for mass production of battery packs to support a 500k/year chassis production line.

https://electrek.co/2016/11/30/gm-chevy-bolt-ev-loss-before-zev-credit/

I think many of tje established car manufacturers are in for a shock when they eventually try to mass produce EVs and realise all their existing factories/supply chain is useless without major reinvestment. Nissan have so far apparently spent $5.6 billion on developing the Leaf.... Which lets face it looks like a Nissan Note!! So clearly building EVs isn't as simple as many people think.

muddyone

Strider590 wrote: »

Electric cars just not worth doing, the industry is going to bleed the consumers dry with electric cars, then in 10-15 years, they'll be demonised just like Diesels, then they'll roll out hydrogen fuel cells (see GM Hy-wire) and start pushing those instead.

To true,
I have a PHEV, for the first year was great , joined #sourceLondon, early bird no membership fee, free to charge free to park whilst you charge, all good. Then other companies appeared, different chargers , and to use them you need to be a member. Thing is you have no idea when leaving home (without planning a military campaign) which chargers are likely to be where you are going on enroute.
#sourcelondon sent me an email last sept ( which I did not see) informing me that if I failed to renew promptly in Jan 2017 then my membership would be cancled. This they see fit as Appel notice (even though it has auto renewed for the last 2 years) duelling tried to use the card and now they want £4 a month plus 3.6p a minute of charge - assuming that the charge point works! Very underhand in my book as if they had tried to contact me at the time of my membership lapsing , maybe by txt or informed me when I call ( I had called them in Nov and Dec regarding faulty boxes) then I would not have this charge.

So here is the problem- in order to know that you can change your car you need to be a member of at least 2 (Waitrose does not use source) possibly 3 charging networks, this would be £12 a month plus chargeing.
If I do 12000 miles a year my fuel cost me approx £1700 or 14p a mile

At 3.6p a minute it now cost me 8.60 to charge my car to do (in theory) 50'miles ( more like 20 on most occasions) or 17p. PLUS the membership fee

This industry need standardising, completion and regulation. As at the present as you may of guessed I am feeling pretty ripped off. I only charge the car at home from the solar cells. On a journey of more than 100 miles the fuel equation falls off a cliff as I am carrying around a ton of now empty batteries.

Only reason to buy a hybrid is for the tax saving as a company director / BIK.
And that ends this month.