Napier fixed charge notice

Coupon-mad · 23 February 2017 at 12:02AM

Really? Wrong coat, etc.?

Sabre69 · 23 February 2017 at 12:11AM

Yeah. I haven't a clue what I was wearing that day but the coat on the photo looks like its greenish colour with possibly black sleeves with a badge on and black lined hood. The only green coat I have is all green, no badges and has a white fluffy lining which can be seen from behind quite clearly. Looks like the woman has mid calf black boots on too which I don't even own any and possibly a bit of pony tail when zoomed right in which I don't have. Shows how rubbish the pic is when I can't even tell if it could be me.
Also like I said when I came out the store after a few minutes the warden was over the other side of the car park near my car facing my car so I can't even see how even running he could have got a camera out and saw me walking towards the trolley it just all doesn't add up &#55357;&#56897;

Coupon-mad · 23 February 2017 at 12:52AM

Unusually, I would try an IAS appeal here but thy expect you to prove every aspect of your case. So cover EVERYTHING and evidence it with photos.

- state as a fact that the blurry photo is not you. The woman appears to be wearing a coat which (blah blah) and boots and possibly has a ponytail. You own no boots, do not have a pony tail and your only green coat is (blah blah). I would even include a photo of the back of your non-ponytailed head wearing your green coat (honestly!) and say that it isn't the same coat or person in the photo. Say you can only suggest that the Napier employee (do not call him an 'officer' or a 'warden' because they are flipping well not worthy of that title) must have noted 'woman with green coat' and then mistaken you for this other shopper.

State that you did not leave the store at all and the furthest in the car park you went was to look for a trolley at the side of the store (show a pic of the side of the store like you showed us). Undoubtedly this is allowed, if deciding to shop for bulkier items which you did (show your receipt if you have one to prove that, as the IAS will try to expose your version as 'unsupported by evidence' at every opportunity and will look to see the PPC as whiter than white).

Then move on to the legal argument that the sign only states that a £90 charge will apply in the following circs (list them) and also upload that pic of the sign. State that the operator has photographed the wrong shopper and tried to impose a £90 charge for conduct by that stranger which is unsupported by any contractual terms on the sign anyway. As such they have failed to prove a prima facie case (use those words).

When you come to actually put in an IAS appeal you must upload all your evidence at the same time as you fill in the appeal boxes, do not hit 'submit' at any point until you are certain you have uploaded all the photos you want to show!

And I think the system might first of all require you to 'register intent to appeal' causing the PPC to have to show their evidence first...it's a while since I bothered to try one but see how that goes.

You might lose but will be in no worse position, the PPC's only option now (or afterwards) being small claims anyway. And your case on the 2 points of the stranger in the boots and 'other coat' and the fact the sign does not state that a £90 charge arises in any circs stated on the sign, might just make Napier pull this one.

Sabre69 · 23 February 2017 at 11:41AM

Thank you that is very helpful. It's a shame my (£600) laptop died on me yesterday as I'm having to do everything on my phone now which is awkward and also means I've lost a copy of the original appeal to Napier.

Also, just thinking about a case I read where a man in S!!!!hthorpe got taken to court by another PPC because he left the site - his charge got dropped even though he admitted to leaving the site mainly because one: the signs weren't clear enough or something but also because the parking attendant saw him walking away the judge said why didn't you make an attempt to warn the man that leaving the site would incur a fine? So if Napier are saying that the attendant did indeed photograph me then why did he make no attempt to warn me?? Should I include that comment to the IAS??

Redx · 23 February 2017 at 11:43AM

I would not be doing this on a phone

and the docs on the hdd inside that laptop should be retrievable by a geek

and yes you should include all legal cases that support your IAS appeal, including that one you mention and include the transcript , case number and judge etc

as coupon mad said , you have to prove you case and add all the evidence in one go, especially legal cases like you described

so YES is the answer

Coupon-mad · 23 February 2017 at 12:58PM

I would not do this on a phone at all. You need to borrow a laptop or PC to get this done.

You could say even if the IAS Assessor is minded to think the person in boots (that you do not have) in the coat that you do not have, is you, then the fact is the trolley area is part of the side of the store anyway, so no contravention occurred (assuming that lady is pictured at the trolley area).

the judge said why didn't you make an attempt to warn the man that leaving the site would incur a fine?

Yep you could throw in VCS v Ibbotson (transcript hosted in the Parking Prankster's case law) where the Judge found that a predatory, unfair business practice of lurking and just watching people and thinking you can just let them go 'offsite' then penalise them, is not allowable because they have a duty to mitigate any loss. It can't be argued the £90 is a core price term because the signs do not include 'walking by the trolley bay' as a reason to incur a £90 charge at all.

Sabre69 · 23 February 2017 at 1:35PM

Yes Ibbitson was the name of the case I read! Whoever was in the photo was indeed at the side of the building heading towards the rear outer part of the trolley shelter, even though they claim I was seen heading towards the footbridge which doesn't tally with the photo as the footbridge into town is to the left and the woman in pic is heading towards the right. It's a shame the wandering/abandoned trolley wasn't seen in the pic too &#55357;&#56897;

I have just taken my laptop to get repaired and should be ready later today hopefully. It's been a very bad week for me this week and I am really struggling to cope on my own with everything that's gone wrong and barely slept or eaten but thanks to you guys I am feeling a bit more positive today about making this next appeal at least. Thank you again

Coupon-mad · 23 February 2017 at 1:52PM

they claim I was seen heading towards the footbridge which doesn't tally with the photo as the footbridge into town is to the left and the woman in pic is heading towards the right.

That goes in you IAS appeal as well, but again, evidence evidence evidence!

You would need to also upload an aerial picture or a drawing of the site and get the Store Manager to counter sign it as a true representation (his/her name and title & signature and a date, confirming yes, this is the site layout).. You could also ask the Store Manager to confirm that shoppers ARE allowed to get a trolley outside/round the side of the store in order to shop, and that this is NOT outside of the boundary. IN WRITING OF COURSE!

You could pre-write that and date it and go in and ask for him/her to sign it for your evidence as you've been put to this harassment and the Store haven't simply picked up the phone & cancelled it.

Sabre69 · 23 February 2017 at 4:45PM

Laptop needs a new part and will be ready early next week so will start trying write out appeal and get more photos, etc in the mean time.

Also has anyone heard of a guy called Tony Taylor on Facebook he runs a page called Appeal My Ticket and for the fee of £7 he'll completely take over your case for you and deal with all the letters, etc. He claims to have won over 700 cases so far with hardly any losses. I emailed him last night but no response yet. Just wondered if I basically wrote all the things I wanted mentioning along with proofs whether he could just then add all his legal jargon he knows??