£67,031.92 is a frightening number indeed....

BabyStepper

Hi

Your thread is really long so I haven't been able to read it all and I am new-ish around here and can't figure out how to multi quote, but I had a few thoughts I wanted to share.

On your first page you were determined not to allow the debt to get any higher but you're now planning to add £50k. What changed your mind? I understand you need more space in your home now that your eldest child is approaching teenage years but you also said you could stick up a few partition walls cheaply to make more bedrooms. What happened to that idea? I'm thinking you can't afford £5k outlay on your new business. Can you not sell your time doing something that avoids the initial start up costs? According to the summary on the previous page you have paid off around £8k, great progress but you need to protect it. There are ways around all these difficulties that don't involve massive spends but you seem to have given up trying. Can you muster up another LBM from somewhere?

Your debts remind me of someone else on here who was also given a large loan from parents. The banks probably would not have allowed your debt to get so large on this income. Just got me thinking about how generous offers are sometimes really not helpful.

All the best with however you move forward.

Sea_Shell

Just as a side note...I watched Kirsty & Phil's Love it or List it last night (recorded from Weds 30th) and I instantly thought of you ToPM.

It was a family of 4 living (Girl/Boy twins) in a 2 bed dormer bungalow, in Yorkshire, and they needed an extra bedroom and better living space.

Basically they knocked some downstairs rooms together, built a small single story extension (boot room/utility) and partitioned the 2nd bedroom in half. Even this relatively small amount of work came in at approx. £60,000!!! (Budget started out at £40,000!!)

Worth a watch.

Suffolk_lass

Sea_Shell wrote: »

Just as a side note...I watched Kirsty & Phil's Love it or List it last night (recorded from Weds 30th) and I instantly thought of you ToPM.

It was a family of 4 living (Girl/Boy twins) in a 2 bed dormer bungalow, in Yorkshire, and they needed an extra bedroom and better living space.

Basically they knocked some downstairs rooms together, built a small single story extension (boot room/utility) and partitioned the 2nd bedroom in half. Even this relatively small amount of work came in at approx. £60,000!!! (Budget started out at £40,000!!)

Worth a watch.

I watched that too! If you have a room with two windows it is fine. I also remember watching an ITV homes thing ages ago where they divided a room using cabin beds as the divider (so it was a bit like a vertical lightning bolt - the closest I could find was like this. I always thought this might be an option to divide a bigger room, if putting a vellux or dormer window in to ensure sufficient light is an option.

I'm sure TOPM is past these suggestions but if money became too tight to complete they do offer alternative options

Sea_Shell

My point was... that's ALL they did with £60k!!!

Humdinger1

Dearest ToPM and all devoted followers

I do hope that this message doesn't come across as bossy and know-it-all. I have to say that - much as it may go against one entrenched culture on MSE - I absolutely agree with ToPM's approach here. ToPM, please don't stop posting because some people have a different world view from yours. Without wanting to stir up trouble here, the perceived judgment of some posters as well as their apparent belief that they knew better about ToPM's life than she did led to her stopping posting for several weeks. As I said at the time, a LBM can mean different things to different people - and the step from unconscious spending to conscious is a big LBM.

Part of the difference in views here may lie between the self-employed and employed mindset. Neither is better than the other, they're just very different. As a member of the former group, I agree with you that part of creating conditions for success depends on following your inner vision; having self-confidence; and believing that you can make a difference. If you feel compelled to operate in a way that goes against your deepest values, your effectiveness and powers of persuasion (essential in self-employment) bleed away. This can only lead to less money coming in, because your psychological operating pool is smaller . You've taken another massive step forward , sacking the blood-sucking g h o u l of the franchise - have you considered changing your name to Van Helsing? That was a result of you listening to yourself, wasn't it?

Not orthodox round these parts, I know - and I also think that all of us following you ToPM genuinely wish the best for you; want you to succeed; are cheering you on. The devotion you inspire in people who've never met you and don't even know your name makes you proud I hope.

I can see that in order to get to the most effective place for you and your family, short term debt may need to increase. By doing this, you'll expand your ability to up your income and pay it off. I've been a very similar situation ToPM - had to pay 90K of business debt off and have just finished paying off a loan (admittedly due to a windfall but it was in a business context and a result of some toxic work I'd long finished), making the total paid over 5 years over 100k. I did keep it separate from personal finances and as a poster up-thread said, it may be worth looking at whether that's something you want to do. I did consider going into employment to pay it off - but it would have shut down a central part of who I am; sent myself a message that 1 mistake made me unfit to run a business and that I must be punished for it; and made the debt repayment far slower. Instead - and life has really backed me up here, partly I think because I listened to my own instincts about who I am and what I'm here for - I expanded what i was doing, and now have many different activities

I only hope that the (lovingly) critical posts that are starting to creep in again don't put you off coming back. If they do, please please can I be considered for an invitation to your new website as would love to be involved in your new enterprise.

Thank you ToPM for your massive contribution to MSE and to life.

Humdinger

Queevs

Hear hear Humdinger.

ToPM, the point of this diary is to chart your own journey, potentially with help from others along the way. You've gathered quite a following (I've no doubt there are many, many others who have not posted at all) and I've seen you struggle through doing things the "right" way for what feels like years. I've always felt it was a huge burden to you, one that I think you still have but it now seems lighter. You seem more hopeful, positive and enthusiastic about what's going on. I'm really pleased for you and hope it continues.

Please take any criticism as a devil's advocate question - trying to see if you've thought of all the potential things that you may need to think about on a given subject rather than harsh judgement, more often than not, that's how it's meant.

More importantly, please don't stop posting, I don't know if I could go back to my quiet, non-ToPM updated commute!

Queevs

Oh goodness. I've just realised that may sound like I'm saying that the criticism is actually harsh judgement which is the opposite of what I meant to say!

Essentially, while a comment may look like criticism or harsh judgement, more often than not it's likely meant as a devil's advocate question.

I hope that's phrased a bit better!

groovychick69

Totally agree with the above!! Please keep posting - only you know what is best for you and your family and whatever that journey may be i’ll will be cheering you on all the way!!!

Mum_of_2_monkeys

Thanks Humdinger - I was feeling a bit cringy and uncomfortable - TOPM hope you’re having a good weekend xx

Suffolk_lass

Sea_Shell wrote: »

My point was... that's ALL they did with £60k!!!

I realised what your point was - mine was that there are always alternative ways to make your money stretch a little further, especially when you are in the midst of it and you realise

a) it is costing more than you planned
b) you are running out of money to finish it.

Sometimes having alternatives to achieve your objectives are useful options to have in your back pocket. We have refurbished 3 houses and none have followed the plans or the costs exactly. That is why we have contingency plans. These can be money, or small compromises - the latter being the options I offered (camp kitchen, room divided, with additional light) as things will be tight.

I am not saying do it or don't do it (not my call) - I am saying there are always other ways that are worth looking at, even when you think you have it all sorted.