Divorce petition served, long separation, advice needed

jackieblack

twiglet98 wrote: »

I haven't told my ex that I am going to a solicitor. He will not be told to complete any disclosure forms and is determined not to incur any legal fees other than the actual divorce documents that he had to pay for. It's going to be messy and expensive and the only way round that is for me to say yes to his suggestion and hope for the best - but that's a risk I don't want to take.

Well then he's living in cloud cuckoo land.
Even where finances are amicably agreed the courts require a basic financial disclosure and any Consent Order has to be drafted by a solicitor and both parties must show that they have taken legal advice.

springdreams

As to your question on the experience of your solicitor, they would have had at least two years training with an experienced solicitor before they qualified. So if the solicitor you are seeing has been qualified for 18 months, then they have been practicing for 3 and a half years.

The more post qualification experience a solicitor has the more expensive they are. Hourly rates are usually determined according to the number of years experience a solicitor has. So a newly qualified solicitor will be less expensive than one who has been qualified for 10+ years. This is also the reason why the initial free consultations are done by junior solicitors. If you want a senior solicitor to deal with your matter then you are unlikely to be given a free consultation. Choosing a firm of solicitors further away will not mean that you will get an initial free consultation from a more senior solicitor. You may still end up with a junior solicitor.

The junior solicitor will always consult with more senior solicitors if they are unsure of anything. However, if they have been dealing with divorces for 18 months, chances are that they have more than enough experience to deal with any straight forward divorce matter. The basic structure of divorces tends to be the same no matter how prolonged the settlement discussions and how detailed the settlement arrangements may be.

Routine matters are generally handled by junior solicitors in order to keep your costs down. You could ask for a more senior solicitor to handle your case, but it will cost more per hour.

You will need to ask the solicitor what their billing arrangements are. Not many bill once a month. Most will bill after each consultation and after a substantive piece of work has been done, otherwise twice a month is not unusual where not much has happened on a matter.

rpc

twiglet98 wrote: »

It's going to be messy and expensive and the only way round that is for me to say yes to his suggestion and hope for the best

That's probably what he is hoping for.

If a court tells him to complete the documents then he can drag it out, but ultimately he has little choice in the matter. Courts have the power to compel him with penalties if he refuses.

TBagpuss

twiglet98 wrote: »

I'm jotting down notes to take to my first meeting with the solicitor, thank you all for giving me so many tips.

The person I'm set to see this week seems only recently qualified from her company profile and I don't know whether to stick with it as it's the most local, or travel further for a firm with a more informative website and staff profiles showing they're reassuringly experienced. I don't feel very comfortable with someone younger than my children advising me! Perhaps a relatively inexperienced lawyer would refer to more senior staff for advice outside her scope. I hate feeling negative before even meeting her but it's going to be hard enough paying for this without chopping and changing. The petition says it must be returned within 8 working days so I don't have time to shop around anyway. I feel sick and panicky and want to hide from it all.

I haven't told my ex that I am going to a solicitor. He will not be told to complete any disclosure forms and is determined not to incur any legal fees other than the actual divorce documents that he had to pay for. It's going to be messy and expensive and the only way round that is for me to say yes to his suggestion and hope for the best - but that's a risk I don't want to take.

Don't panic about this.

This ONLY relates to the actual acknowlegment of service, nothing to do with finances. And all it means is that after 7 days your husband could arrange to have the petition personally served (i.e. get someone to phycially hand it to you and do a statement to say it has been served) He would have to pay to get that arranged.
Given that the court can be quiteslow to notify petitioners that an acknowledgment has been recieved most solicitors will wait at least 2 weeks from the petition being issued before they would chase it up, becuase a lot of the time, if it isn't back in 7 days it's because the court is sitting on it, or it's stuck in the post.

If he doesn't want to pay for advice, what are the odds of him rushing out on day 9 to pay £110 for bailiff service?

in terms of disclosure, even if you were to agree to his settlment, you would both have to provide basic disclosure (This form - the D81 -https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/d081-eng.pdf - has to be filled in and sent to the court with the draft consent order)

Neither of you has to take legal advice and there is no formal requirement to get a solicitor to draw up your consent order, although it is unwise to try to do ityourself and even a simple order needs to be correct.

It would be very, very unwise of you to simply accept his settlment proposal without getting proper advice and making sure that you are confident that you know what the financial position is, and what the assets are.

I repeat: If he is making a genuinely fair and reasonable offer then it is very much in his interestsd to give you full disclosure and to encourage you to see a solicitor, as in those circumstnaces, the best possiblething for him is for you to have your own solicitor tell you his ofer is fair. If he doesn't want you to see a solicitor then the most likely reason ios that he either thinks, or knows, that he is not offering a fiar deal and that he is afraid that if you talk to someone who knows what they ardoing, they will tell you that!

Shop around if you want. It is importnat that you feel comfortable with the person who is representing and advising you. (and just so you know, filling in the acknowledgment of service nad getting that back to the court is the easy bit. You may be ableto do that in the free initial appointment. And if not, there is nothing stipping you changing solicitos after that and seeing someone different about the finacial side of things, if you want.

But it might be worth meting the junior person and seeing what you think. One advantage of someone newly qualified, or fairly junior, is that they are often very careful and thorough, because they are not 100% confident so take huge pains to get things right! But 18 monthsqualified means they do have a good bit of experiences, and in most cases, they will have more senior collegues for back up if they get stuck.

twiglet98

springdreams wrote: »

As to your question on the experience of your solicitor, they would have had at least two years training with an experienced solicitor before they qualified. So if the solicitor you are seeing has been qualified for 18 months, then they have been practicing for 3 and a half years.

The more post qualification experience a solicitor has the more expensive they are. Hourly rates are usually determined according to the number of years experience a solicitor has. So a newly qualified solicitor will be less expensive than one who has been qualified for 10+ years. This is also the reason why the initial free consultations are done by junior solicitors. If you want a senior solicitor to deal with your matter then you are unlikely to be given a free consultation. Choosing a firm of solicitors further away will not mean that you will get an initial free consultation from a more senior solicitor. You may still end up with a junior solicitor.

The junior solicitor will always consult with more senior solicitors if they are unsure of anything. However, if they have been dealing with divorces for 18 months, chances are that they have more than enough experience to deal with any straight forward divorce matter. The basic structure of divorces tends to be the same no matter how prolonged the settlement discussions and how detailed the settlement arrangements may be.

Routine matters are generally handled by junior solicitors in order to keep your costs down. You could ask for a more senior solicitor to handle your case, but it will cost more per hour.

You will need to ask the solicitor what their billing arrangements are. Not many bill once a month. Most will bill after each consultation and after a substantive piece of work has been done, otherwise twice a month is not unusual where not much has happened on a matter.

That is such an informative post, thank you for explaining in such detail. I didn't know anything about how the system of seniority works. And I recall a recent visit to my vet, when the partner I've been seeing for over 25 years suggested calling in their newest vet for his opinion, as his more recent studies meant he was up to date on some newer techniques. I guess the same can apply to studying law.

TBagpuss wrote: »

Don't panic about this.

This ONLY relates to the actual acknowlegment of service, nothing to do with finances. And all it means is that after 7 days your husband could arrange to have the petition personally served (i.e. get someone to phycially hand it to you and do a statement to say it has been served) He would have to pay to get that arranged.
Given that the court can be quiteslow to notify petitioners that an acknowledgment has been recieved most solicitors will wait at least 2 weeks from the petition being issued before they would chase it up, becuase a lot of the time, if it isn't back in 7 days it's because the court is sitting on it, or it's stuck in the post.

If he doesn't want to pay for advice, what are the odds of him rushing out on day 9 to pay £110 for bailiff service?

in terms of disclosure, even if you were to agree to his settlment, you would both have to provide basic disclosure (This form - the D81 -https://formfinder.hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/d081-eng.pdf - has to be filled in and sent to the court with the draft consent order)

Neither of you has to take legal advice and there is no formal requirement to get a solicitor to draw up your consent order, although it is unwise to try to do ityourself and even a simple order needs to be correct.

It would be very, very unwise of you to simply accept his settlment proposal without getting proper advice and making sure that you are confident that you know what the financial position is, and what the assets are.

I repeat: If he is making a genuinely fair and reasonable offer then it is very much in his interestsd to give you full disclosure and to encourage you to see a solicitor, as in those circumstnaces, the best possiblething for him is for you to have your own solicitor tell you his ofer is fair. If he doesn't want you to see a solicitor then the most likely reason ios that he either thinks, or knows, that he is not offering a fiar deal and that he is afraid that if you talk to someone who knows what they ardoing, they will tell you that!

Shop around if you want. It is importnat that you feel comfortable with the person who is representing and advising you. (and just so you know, filling in the acknowledgment of service nad getting that back to the court is the easy bit. You may be ableto do that in the free initial appointment. And if not, there is nothing stipping you changing solicitos after that and seeing someone different about the finacial side of things, if you want.

But it might be worth meting the junior person and seeing what you think. One advantage of someone newly qualified, or fairly junior, is that they are often very careful and thorough, because they are not 100% confident so take huge pains to get things right! But 18 monthsqualified means they do have a good bit of experiences, and in most cases, they will have more senior collegues for back up if they get stuck.

Thank you for this, I really appreciate the time you've taken to explain things in so much detail, and the reassurance that I'm not actually in trouble for not getting the petition back to Court by now.

The email from my ex saying he'd posted the divorce papers as per infomation on gov.uk/divorce also said he is not using a solicitor on the basis that we have agreed the basics. He has spoken, but not listened.

Tonight my eldest DD has said just sell the house for whatever pittance I can get, clear the mortgage, get the divorce, and rent somewhere near them. It'll be a couple of weeks before I can get time off to have estate agents out. I hope I'll have clearer vision by then.

Thank you again.

twiglet98

Well, that was a pointless waste of a half-day off. I arrived to be told she was running late, so I waited, and waited, until the receptionist said the solicitor had just emailed to say she'd have to cancel today's appointment, could I come tomorrow. She said she had left me a message yesterday - there's nothing on my voicemail and the only contact number they had was my mobile. There was a missed call from a number I didn't recognise, but no voicemail.

I've no inclination to try again with this person and am back to square one, will have to make an appointment with a firm in town. Why is nothing straightforward?

pphillips

I'm not saying this will always be the case but some solicitors have a borderline narcissistic personality disorder that causes them to miss appointments on purpose with the subconscious intention that this will make their clients dependant on them in order to feed their need to control other people. If the solicitor you were going to see was like that then you have just dodged a bullet by not going back!

springdreams

pphillips wrote: »

I'm not saying this will always be the case but some solicitors have a borderline narcissistic personality disorder that causes them to miss appointments on purpose with the subconscious intention that this will make their clients dependant on them in order to feed their need to control other people. If the solicitor you were going to see was like that then you have just dodged a bullet by not going back!

I don't know of any lawyer who would purposely miss the initial free consultation! The point of offering the first consultation for free is the hope for the lawyer that it will lead to billable, paid work. Obviously missing the first consultation does not leave a potential client with a good first impression, and they are indeed likely to walk ...

twiglet98

I rang a firm in town following a recommendation, was immediately offered a (free) phone chat with one of the partners, and I was so impressed with the friendly and informative professional, making clear and comprehensive points, that I have made an appointment to go in next week. I received an email soon after the phone call which lists information I might usefully collate before our meeting, the tone is welcoming and interested, reassuring and experienced. The hourly rate is eyewatering but I feel a confidence that was absent until today.

Savvy_Sue

I think the key thing in dealing with solicitors is to make sure you do as much of the work as you can, ready to present to them, and work out before you meet or phone what you need to deal with: write questions in advance and take notes as you go along.