PIP catch 22

PHILANTHROPIST

" But the time will come in the not too distant future when face to face hearings will be a thing of the past. All but most will be carried out based on written submissions. Some may have a SKYPE interview whilst others a telephone conversation. It is also anticipated that there will only be the judge in attendance."

This topic is discussed below :

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3553-virtual-abolition-of-pip-dla-and-esa-appeal-tribunals-as-we-know-them

I would be concerned that appellants who do not get the necessary support may suffer from such changes, but for those that do I sense that it may not make much difference.

This topic distracts from the thread, but does anybody know the latest on said proposed changes ?

densol_2

OP - I won my PIP tribunal and did not attend. I was too ill. I said in the nicest possible way by letter that I would rather lose than pose a risk to myself ( by self harm ) if I had to attend, and also the worry about attending beforehand. I had significant recent medical evidence to support my claim.

rockingbilly

PHILANTHROPIST wrote: »

" But the time will come in the not too distant future when face to face hearings will be a thing of the past. All but most will be carried out based on written submissions. Some may have a SKYPE interview whilst others a telephone conversation. It is also anticipated that there will only be the judge in attendance."

This topic is discussed below :

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3553-virtual-abolition-of-pip-dla-and-esa-appeal-tribunals-as-we-know-them

I would be concerned that appellants who do not get the necessary support may suffer from such changes, but for those that do I sense that it may not make much difference.

This topic distracts from the thread, but does anybody know the latest on said proposed changes ?

In my opinion the sooner the better. After my last Tribunal I came away believing that I was a criminal! The way I was treated was terrible - the judge actually told me that my evidence was not credible and neither was I!! No way would I put my trust again into that system. Much better to either accept what the DWP decide or put it down in writing attached to some very good evidence.

MoneyAdvice

rockingbilly wrote: »

In my opinion the sooner the better. After my last Tribunal I came away believing that I was a criminal! The way I was treated was terrible - the judge actually told me that my evidence was not credible and neither was I!! No way would I put my trust again into that system. Much better to either accept what the DWP decide or put it down in writing attached to some very good evidence.

What sort of evidence did you have, and why did they not find you credible?

rockingbilly

MoneyAdvice wrote: »

What sort of evidence did you have, and why did they not find you credible?

According to the judge, the evidence that I submitted came from both my GP and various Consultants. These reports stated with all certainty that I could not walk beyond 50 metres and even walking from 10 metres was near impossible because of pain. Another report advised that I have difficulty with memory as well as learning and understanding verbal commands.
All of these were dismissed as in his opinion what I said, how I said it and how I was contradicted every statement made by the medical professionals. Additionally I was completely lost during the questioning bit. I clammed up because I really couldn't understand the questions. The guy from the DWP made it worse when he tried to twist what I was saying. The judge suggested that I was trying to remember what I had put on the claim form not because of memory issues but because they were not the truth.
In the end I felt like saying 'boll***s to this but didn't - I said it in a more professional way.
The people that helped me fill out the claim from were useless. I had to take the blame for the poor job they had done. They were sat next to me but said nothing when the judge asked who had completed the form and I didn't want to embarrass them.

MoneyAdvice

rockingbilly wrote: »

According to the judge, the evidence that I submitted came from both my GP and various Consultants. These reports stated with all certainty that I could not walk beyond 50 metres and even walking from 10 metres was near impossible because of pain. Another report advised that I have difficulty with memory as well as learning and understanding verbal commands.
All of these were dismissed as in his opinion what I said, how I said it and how I was contradicted every statement made by the medical professionals. Additionally I was completely lost during the questioning bit. I clammed up because I really couldn't understand the questions. The guy from the DWP made it worse when he tried to twist what I was saying. The judge suggested that I was trying to remember what I had put on the claim form not because of memory issues but because they were not the truth.
In the end I felt like saying 'boll***s to this but didn't - I said it in a more professional way.
The people that helped me fill out the claim from were useless. I had to take the blame for the poor job they had done. They were sat next to me but said nothing when the judge asked who had completed the form and I didn't want to embarrass them.

I'm in a similar position. My tribunal hearing is in April and I'm waiting for my Autism diagnosis report to use as evidence. I will also be bringing a support worker in with me. I am also preparing a written statement in-case I'm unable to verbally communicate properly.

rockingbilly

MoneyAdvice wrote: »

I'm in a similar position. My tribunal hearing is in April and I'm waiting for my Autism diagnosis report to use as evidence. I will also be bringing a support worker in with me. I am also preparing a written statement in-case I'm unable to verbally communicate properly.

Having a diagnosis seems to mean nothing to both the DWP and the Tribunal.
They said that what the GP and Consultants had written was not worth the paper it was printed on. They said that I proved that in the way I answered questions and conducted myself.
Your support worker would not be allowed to give evidence on your behalf. Mine wasn't.

MoneyAdvice

rockingbilly wrote: »

Having a diagnosis seems to mean nothing to both the DWP and the Tribunal.
They said that what the GP and Consultants had written was not worth the paper it was printed on. They said that I proved that in the way I answered questions and conducted myself.
Your support worker would not be allowed to give evidence on your behalf. Mine wasn't.

It can't be that difficult to win an appeal if you genuinely have a case. I'm not going to be put off by your negative experience. I guess it's down to what sort of panel you have. Sometimes you have an understanding panel and other times you have a judgmental one. And remember, they have to back their decision up, and you can appeal their decision if there was an error in law.

I don't know what sort of diagnosis you provided to them, but the one I will be presenting will be an NHS diagnosis for ASD which will describe in detail the difficulties I have. It's not an opinion or 'the patient claims', it's a full blown diagnosis done in laboratory conditions. And I'd be very surprised if they dismiss that evidence.

rockingbilly

MoneyAdvice wrote: »

It can't be that difficult to win an appeal if you genuinely have a case. I'm not going to be put off by your negative experience. I guess it's down to what sort of panel you have. Sometimes you have an understanding panel and other times you have a judgmental one. And remember, they have to back their decision up, and you can appeal their decision if there was an error in law.

I don't know what sort of diagnosis you provided to them, but the one I will be presenting will be an NHS diagnosis for ASD which will describe in detail the difficulties I have. It's not an opinion or 'the patient claims', it's a full blown diagnosis done in laboratory conditions. And I'd be very surprised if they dismiss that evidence.

All of my evidence came from the NHS.
They weren't interested in the diagnosis more a question of the Tribunal testing the results and conclusion that was given.
I was diagnosed as having a mental health condition - there was no doubt in that. What they sought was to test me against the conclusions reached by the Consultant - taken from the report - "presents a history of psychological problems, historical alcohol dependency and vascular risk factors, The results of the neuropsychological assessment is that Mr**** prominent feature is his performance of slow processing speed. He is also finding it difficult with executive functioning - namely initiating, sequencing cognitive flexibility on both verbal and non verbal tasks".
That is just a few lines taken from a 4 page report.

The Tribunal in their findings said that none of the above difficulties existed when seen by the panel and therefore they could not rely on the accuracy of the professional diagnosis, prognosis or findings. The panel also found that I was able to answer difficult and searching questions with no apparent difficulty. In view of those finding I conclude that what Mr **** claimed may not be true and that in doing so his credibility as a witness was deemed lacking.

MoneyAdvice

I would look into seeing if there was an error in law because it doesn't look like they were giving you a fair hearing.