PIP catch 22

hello007007

I just got told my MR for PIP, I've been turned down. I have Bi-polar, depression, anxiety amongst other things.The main excuess PIP used was that I was present, on time, in the right place for the PIP assessment. I was also able to understand and answer questions at the PIP assessment - so need no help for my mental health.

I was attending a pre arranged PIP assessment with my husband, who is my carer. I had mentally prepared for it for weeks and I coped well I was proud of myself however, all this worked against me.

Now I will have to attend a tribunal. Its catch 22 - if I cope well at the tribunal then they will not reward me anything. If I break down, I will be so embarrssed and will look stupid (when I break down, I really break down and can't stop crying for ages). So I will either seem like a fool or like its a show - a stunt for them.

I can't win - I am so confused. I have medical records going back years and offical diagnoses and take a large amount of medication but I feel it all matters on looks. I hope this makes sense. I don't know what will happen or how I will cope, I am so scared.:(

annandale

Think you might be better posting this on the benefits board.

hazyjo

My OH half has all the above and we chose for him not to work. He doesn't get any benefits either.


Can you make it work on one salary? Do you need a carer - my OH is now a house husband and does everything indoors. It has helped him tremendously.


Jx
PS not said in a way that people shouldn't take benefits before anyone lynches me, just that bipolar, anxiety, (even borderline agoraphobia like my OH, etc) often means it's hard or impossible to get benefits.

hello007007

You are right, I was such a mess when I wrote the post. It should be in the disability forum. How do I move it?

Proxima_Centauri

So if you turn up they say you're well enough not to need benefits, and if you don't turn up you won't get any help because you didn't turn up. Interesting :think:

Alice_Holt

1) Very unusual for the decision to be reversed at MR stage.

2) This is typical wording from the DWP DM when refusing PIP on mental health grounds - please don't be put off taking it to a tribunal. Over 65% of PIP appeals are allowed. The DM should be looking at what you can do reliably for the majority of the time not how you appeared on the day of the assessment (see link below to Benefits & Work and a quote from them on reliably).

3) See if your local CAB / advice agency has a caseworker who could help with your appeal.

4) Some useful sites:
http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/apply-to-tribunal/
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-appeals
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547146/pip-assessment-guide.pdf

If you can't get help from your local CAB, do consider subscribing to B & W as their guides are very informative.

Key to a successful tribunal is -
Knowing how your score the necessary points, and having examples from your day-to-day life around the relevant descriptors to tell the panel about;
Supplying the tribunal with relevant medical evidence (see http://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal);
Have supporting evidence from family / friends / carers, etc;
Explain fully to the tribunal how you are day-to-day, explain how you may struggle to do the relevant descriptors reliably.
"Guidance issued by the DWP states that you need to be able to complete an activity ‘reliably’ in
order for it to apply. According to the guidance, ‘reliably’ means whether you can do so:
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person.
• To a necessary and acceptable standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a timely manner – in a reasonable time period."

Good luck, and do appeal if you think the decision is wrong.

Alice_Holt

Also bear if mind that tribunal panels are very used to seeing appellants who suffer from depression and severe anxiety. At tribunals I have attended, the panel seeks to set the appellant at ease, to ask questions gently in order to get the information they need.
They are very thorough, as they need to come to a correct legal decision, and then justify that decision citing the evidence before them (including your oral evidence). They won't just assess you on how you appear, they will look far more deeply than that. Hence the importance of supplying medical evidence.

Remember you attended the assessment with your husband (which speaks to the need for support with social engagement), you mentally prepared yourself for it over weeks and probably timed your medication accordingly (could you do anything in the days before the assessment, or where you pre-occupied with it?), how did it affect you afterwards? The tribunal will be interested to hear all this.

TELLIT01

The Mandatory Reconsideration stage does little apart from lengthen the process of appealing against the original decision. It was introduced, on instruction from a Parliamentary committee, to enable claimants to be given a full verbal explanation of the original decision. The hope being that the majority of claimants would accept the decision after the verbal explanation had been given. From my experience, once people have requested the MR they are rarely put off by the explanation provided.

WelshTiger72

I am worried and pre occupied with my up and coming tribunal. I can't sleep and I am constantly angry with others and in a total self disrupt mood. Can't shake off this feeling my life is just useless.

PHILANTHROPIST

Welsh Tiger - sorry to hear your concerns, but this will not help the OP.

With regards to the OP's thread, Alice Holt's reply is spot on.

May I also suggest the following to the OP ..(and Welsh Tiger) :

1. Try to have a competent person support you at the Tribunal and help you prepare. At the end of the day it's a points scoring exercise and that is what you need to focus on by reviewing each and every descriptor that applies to you and present relevant examples. As Alice says, the Benefits and Work guides are excellent in this regard.
2. Generally speaking, Tribunals are not as stressful as a face to face assessment. The panel members are usually very nice and respectful. The security staff can be a bit stubborn, but ignore them. One thing that has helped many people I know has been to observe a PIP (or if relevant ESA) appeal beforehand as a member of the public .... i.e. sit in the public gallery. In theory you need to notify the DWP beforehand of such a request and the appellant needs to be comfortable with a third party being present. However, in reality if you, or a support person, liaises directly with the Court admin staff then a date and time to observe proceedings can usually be arranged without the need to write to the DWP. Based on my experience, claimants with mental health and anxiety issues benefit greatly from witnessing such proceedings beforehand. It usually has a calming influence.

Best of luck anyhow, and do not give in - that is what the DWP wants you to do !

rockingbilly

But the time will come in the not too distant future when face to face hearings will be a thing of the past. All but most will be carried out based on written submissions. Some may have a SKYPE interview whilst others a telephone conversation. It is also anticipated that there will only be the judge in attendance.